Photographer's rights in Britain

Peter Black · Mar 25, 2008

Now I know that there have been a few threads that touched on this topic, but a Forum search only got me 1 hit for Austin Mitchell, soooooo ........

Austin Mitchell MP (Member of Parliament) has put forward an Early Day Motion for other MPs to sign up to, seeking clear information about photographers rights to be circulated within the UK. Please consider contacting your MP and asking them to sign it. You can find and contact your MP by entering your postcode at:

www.theyworkforyou.com and following the links.

EDM 1155 : PHOTOGRAPHY IN PUBLIC AREAS
11.03.2008
Quote:
That this House is concerned to encourage the spread and enjoyment of photography as the most genuine and accessible people's art; deplores the apparent increase in the number of reported incidents in which the police, police community support officers (PCSOs) or wardens attempt to stop street photography and order the deletion of photographs or the confiscation of cards, cameras or film on various specious ground such as claims that some public buildings are strategic or sensitive, that children and adults can only be photographed with their written permission, that photographs of police and PCSOs are illegal, or that photographs may be used by terrorists; points out that photography in public places and streets is not only enjoyable but perfectly legal; regrets all such efforts to stop, discourage or inhibit amateur photographers taking pictures in public places, many of which are in any case festooned with closed circuit television cameras; and urges the Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Officers to agree on a photography code for the information of officers on the ground, setting out the public's right to photograph public places thus allowing photographers to enjoy their hobby without officious interference or unjustified suspicion.

Seems like a no-brainer to me, but just giving this information for those who might want to contact their MP and seek their support.

Dave Miller · Mar 25, 2008

Good stuff, but I think they should delete the word "amateur" for why shouldn't professionals take photographs in public places without harassment too?

Fintan · Mar 25, 2008

Fair play to you guys, I hope this is successful.

Dave Miller · Mar 25, 2008

I've emailed both my MP, with a request that he supports it, and to Austin Mitchell to thank him for his efforts on our behalf.

tim_walls · Mar 25, 2008

I wrote to my MP at the back end of last week on this subject (and the new police ad campaign.) He's a government minister, so he can't actually sign an EDM, but hopefully he can encourage his cabinet colleagues to tone down the fascism.

Not that I hold out much hope... I'll post the response here if it's anything interesting (which I doubt.)

Incidentally, EDMs pretty well never go on to have any direct effect; they are mainly a way for MPs to effectively hand in a 'petition' to the government. The hope is they at least show the Guvvmint that there is at least a level of support/concern for an issue. Anyway, 74 signatures in the short space of time since it was raised on a 'minority issue' seems pretty respectable to me. (By 'minority issue' I mean something actually important - EDMs of the 'this house believes all our war veterans are jolly splendid chaps' variety - which seem to make up the bulk - obviously garner votes from everyone.)

It also seems to have good cross-party support. Of the 6 original signatories raising the EDM (1 proposer + 5 seconders,) it was 2 Labour, 3 Conservative, and 1 Lib-Dem.

Fintan · Mar 25, 2008

Thanks for the the heads-up Tim, I'm quite interested as a tourist to the UK I should explain.

Peter Black · Mar 25, 2008

Dave Miller said:
I've emailed both my MP, with a request that he supports it, and to Austin Mitchell to thank him for his efforts on our behalf.

I emailed my MP last night, but have had no reply so far and his name is still not down as a supporter. He is a Lib-Dem so I would have thought he would support it. I'll post if and when I get a reply.

Andy K · Mar 25, 2008

I emailed my MP earlier this evening. I'll watch the list to see if their name appears supporting the motion.

JBrunner · Mar 25, 2008

Wow. That's near the most sensible utterance of any public official I've heard in the last 5 years. Good for you guys.

RobC · Mar 25, 2008

well I checked my MP's history on EDM's and he's been a very long serving MP and never once has he signed upto one.

RobC · Mar 25, 2008

tim_walls said:
I wrote to my MP at the back end of last week on this subject (and the new police ad campaign.) He's a government minister, so he can't actually sign an EDM, but hopefully he can encourage his cabinet colleagues to tone down the fascism.

Not that I hold out much hope... I'll post the response here if it's anything interesting (which I doubt.)

Incidentally, EDMs pretty well never go on to have any direct effect; they are mainly a way for MPs to effectively hand in a 'petition' to the government. The hope is they at least show the Guvvmint that there is at least a level of support/concern for an issue. Anyway, 74 signatures in the short space of time since it was raised on a 'minority issue' seems pretty respectable to me. (By 'minority issue' I mean something actually important - EDMs of the 'this house believes all our war veterans are jolly splendid chaps' variety - which seem to make up the bulk - obviously garner votes from everyone.)

It also seems to have good cross-party support. Of the 6 original signatories raising the EDM (1 proposer + 5 seconders,) it was 2 Labour, 3 Conservative, and 1 Lib-Dem.

Maybe someone should get Lord Healy involved. He's a keen photographer as is Lord Snowdon.

tim_walls · Mar 25, 2008

rob champagne said:
Maybe someone should get Lord Healy involved. He's a keen photographer as is Lord Snowdon.

Yes, I've been tempted to write to one of the Lords, I just haven't decided which one . A Lord can't sign the Early Day Motion of course - EDMs are a Commons thing - but since it's the Lords who seem to be the last best hope for moderating the current government's fascist tendencies these days (ironically, given it's the Lords who are unelected,) it would seem sensible to have them on our side .

I've been tempted to write to Lord Bragg, who I'm sure can't approve of this sort of thing; but then I think it's probably just because I love "In Our Time" on Radio 4, and I don't want to sound like a starstruck fan .

MikeSeb · Mar 25, 2008

I'd ask my Congressman to introduce a bill to this effect here, except that no one in the US Congress, as far as I can tell, can write as well as your MP.

Bravo, and good luck.

pauliej · Mar 25, 2008

Mike, you could cut and paste - just a thought Since it's an election year here in the states, I dont imagine there will be much work going on in Wash DC, except for the Reps and Sens getting up and saying what a great job he/she is doing so the CSPAN cam will get them and broadcast all over our great and growing nation. Or to maybe vote on a pay raise for themselves very late some nite. Yes, I am cranky and cynical - it works for me! I sure hope our British friends across the stormy sea get their photographers rights, and hope we get something similar or better sometime too.

Paul

JBrunner · Mar 25, 2008

I highly doubt anything like that could get an airing here in the states at this time.

It's not fear mongering, it doesn't help the sniveling weak feel safe, and doesn't help anybody track down the thousands of Al qaeda terrorists we have operating out in the Utah desert.

Peter Black · Mar 30, 2008

Well I never got any response to the email I sent to my MP, but I've just checked the list of signatures on the EDM and his name is now on there!

Andy K · Mar 30, 2008

I got a response but my MP, as yet, has not signed.

Here's the reply I got:

Thank you for your email. This is a short email to confirm that your
email has been received and will be brought to James' attention as soon
as possible.

Thank you again.

Joseph Harley
Senior Caseworker for James Duddridge MP
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

Looks like a form letter to me.

Steve Smith · Mar 30, 2008

I too got a confirmation from my MP but he is not on the list yet.

Steve.

Paul. · Mar 31, 2008

I got an answer saying he got lots of emails and was dealing with them as soon as possible and if was urgent to phone him. So just goes to show what he thinks of his photographer constituent Paul, glad I didnot vote for him now.

Regards Paul.

Fraxinus · Mar 31, 2008

Re: Photographers' Rights in Britain

I wrote to my MP to draw his attention to the EDM. He replied very promptly and here's what he said:
Thank you for your email about EDM 1155 and photography in public places.

I appreciate you drawing my attention to this issue, I am not aware that this practice is particularly prevalent, and as such I would not wish to sign the EDM and criticise our police force without knowing more details.

In general, however, I believe it is important that people are aware of what their rights are. You are right that, except in exceptional circumstances, it is not an offence to take photographs in public places, indeed, thousands of people do all through the UK every day.

When there are serious concerns about national security, such as at military airports and power stations, there are provisions for photography being restricted; however, in general Government buildings are not covered. Indeed, the Houses of Parliament must be one of the most photographed buildings in the world and, whilst the Metropolitan police are running an anti-terrorism campaign encouraging the reporting of suspicious behaviour, including photographing sensitive buildings, I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write to me.

Yours sincerely
Mark Prisk MP

So, no joy there, but at least he thought about it for a minute.

I feel strongly about this issue - and the erosion of basic human rights and privacy in the UK generally - so I've gone and Dead Link Removed

A sure way to draw attention to myself - but it'll be interesting to see what happens!

Dave Miller · Mar 31, 2008

I just got ignored.

tim_walls · Mar 31, 2008

Fraxinus said:
I wrote to my MP to draw his attention to the EDM. He replied very promptly and here's what he said:
Thank you for your email about EDM 1155 and photography in public places.

I appreciate you drawing my attention to this issue, I am not aware that this practice is particularly prevalent, and as such I would not wish to sign the EDM and criticise our police force without knowing more details.

In general, however, I believe it is important that people are aware of what their rights are. You are right that, except in exceptional circumstances, it is not an offence to take photographs in public places, indeed, thousands of people do all through the UK every day.

When there are serious concerns about national security, such as at military airports and power stations, there are provisions for photography being restricted; however, in general Government buildings are not covered. Indeed, the Houses of Parliament must be one of the most photographed buildings in the world and, whilst the Metropolitan police are running an anti-terrorism campaign encouraging the reporting of suspicious behaviour, including photographing sensitive buildings, I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write to me.

Yours sincerely
Mark Prisk MP

So, no joy there, but at least he thought about it for a minute.

I wouldn't get my hopes up on the 'he thought about it for a minute' front. Two other people have got exactly the same letter, from two different MPs. See:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nieljohn/2364335599/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12494104@N00/2365284558/

You may wish to follow up noting that he thanks you for taking the time to write, so you would appreciate it if he would take the time to actually read it and write his own reply.

Is your MP a Tory by any chance? I suspect the strong whiff of a "we don't want to criticise the Police" standard response having been written by Central Office... You may wish to consider a side letter to David Cameron's office expressing disgust if that is the case...

Dave Miller · Mar 31, 2008

Possibly they were too busy tidying up their expense accounts for less pressing matters.

Trevor Crone · Mar 31, 2008

Just received a quick response from my local labour MP.

"Thank you for your email. I will send you a full response as soon as
possible.

Best wishes

Clive Efford"

I'll keep you posted, if and when.

Andy K · Apr 2, 2008

Fraxinus said:
I wrote to my MP to draw his attention to the EDM. He replied very promptly and here's what he said:
Thank you for your email about EDM 1155 and photography in public places.

I appreciate you drawing my attention to this issue, I am not aware that this practice is particularly prevalent, and as such I would not wish to sign the EDM and criticise our police force without knowing more details.

In general, however, I believe it is important that people are aware of what their rights are. You are right that, except in exceptional circumstances, it is not an offence to take photographs in public places, indeed, thousands of people do all through the UK every day.

When there are serious concerns about national security, such as at military airports and power stations, there are provisions for photography being restricted; however, in general Government buildings are not covered. Indeed, the Houses of Parliament must be one of the most photographed buildings in the world and, whilst the Metropolitan police are running an anti-terrorism campaign encouraging the reporting of suspicious behaviour, including photographing sensitive buildings, I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to write to me.

Yours sincerely
Mark Prisk MP

So, no joy there, but at least he thought about it for a minute.

I feel strongly about this issue - and the erosion of basic human rights and privacy in the UK generally - so I've gone and Dead Link Removed

A sure way to draw attention to myself - but it'll be interesting to see what happens!

I got the exact same reply through the post this morning. My MP is a Tory, is there a pattern here?

Photographer's rights in Britain

Peter Black

Dave Miller

Fintan

Dave Miller

tim_walls

Fintan

Peter Black

Andy K

JBrunner

Moderator

RobC

RobC

tim_walls

MikeSeb

pauliej

JBrunner

Moderator

Peter Black

Andy K

Steve Smith

Paul.

Fraxinus

Attachments

Dave Miller

tim_walls

Dave Miller

Trevor Crone

Andy K

Photographer's rights in Britain

Moderator

Moderator

Attachments

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency