Photographers of color

[grain elevator]

Freedom is still a rare gift.

I know of one place in the world that has freedom from government censorship as part of it's main rules. Can you believe that? Only one country in the entire world?

Tells us something about the education system in that country you're probably thinking of, but nothing about the rest of the world

 

[BrianShaw]

Take the labels and finger-pointing out of the equation and what do you get: discrimination, hatred, and bigotry as an ugly aspect of human nature. A prior attempt at equity, equal opportunity, seemed to be right in many ways but not 100% effective. At least it was a fair process that focused on skills and products. Giving a helping hand to those in need (for whatever reason) is one of the better aspects of the human condition. It’s a very very complex problem.

 

[BrianShaw]

The mental gymnastics of this sentence is remarkable. You took the labels out of the equation and ended up with "discrimination", "hatred" and "bigotry"?

Ya... it is remarkable... thanks for acknowledging that. I’m talking about taking away the labels: minority, black, Asian, white, etc. Each of these groups have members who can and do exhibit bigotry toward other groups and even to those within their own group who they view as different. No group is exempt it seems. The problem is very very complex.

 

[BrianShaw]

The "Animal Farm" must be mandatory reading in high school. It is a short and vivid reminder of the greatest lesson we have learned in the 20th century: Be wary of loud people with flags who are offended on someone else's behalf.

On my reading list. I missed that experience in high school but one of my kids just had it in a class.

 

[BrianShaw]

... and getting back to the original 2017 question... it seems to me that photography was mostly practiced in areas of higher affluence. It’s more about having money and interest than color.

 

[Cholentpot]

Tells us something about the education system in that country you're probably thinking of, but nothing about the rest of the world

Nothing is stopping a child from being educated aside from the parents. School is a supplement to what's learned at home. Freedom comes at a cost, you're free to succeed as much as you are free to fail.

... and getting back to the original 2017 question... it seems to me that photography was mostly practiced in areas of higher affluence. It’s more about having money and interest than color.

Ding ding ding!

 

[MartinCrabtree]

a minority can just as easily be the oppressor. it depends where you live.

What exactly does that mean? It's certainly not an excuse.

That's the spirit. Once again in this thread I see yet another reference to mysterious evil "those". Are you trying to erase dividers between people or create new ones? Nobody in 1917 said "let's build gulags", that's not how it started.

Another post without substance. A thread full of scarecrows. Exactly what is your stance on the subject at hand? I believe mine has been made abundantly clear. If not I clarify..........I believe there is a systemic and social bias towards people due to who they are born as having nothing to do with their actions or deeds. That is wrong and needs to be done away with. Not by legislation for it's already the law but by social discourse and personal examination hopefully leading to social change. Which by the way appears to move at a glacial pace so let's get moving.

To be clear I ask do you believe there are substantial difficulties encountered by non white people in daily life in the United States?

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Do y'all realize what has happened here? One troll with an agenda dug up one thread from years ago and did nothing except ruin your days and waste your time. Continue to argue your points of view if you must, but be aware of the influence it's taking on your lives.

 

[BrianShaw]

Do y'all realize what has happened here? One troll with an agenda dug up one thread from years ago and did nothing except ruin your days and waste your time. Continue to argue your points of view if you must, but be aware of the influence it's taking on your lives.

You are very correct, of course, and that comment could be applied to a good number of threads. LOL.

 

[Cholentpot]

Do y'all realize what has happened here? One troll with an agenda dug up one thread from years ago and did nothing except ruin your days and waste your time. Continue to argue your points of view if you must, but be aware of the influence it's taking on your lives.

I'm not losing sleep over this. I don't mind hashing this out. APUG folk tend to be good folk, might as well hear opinions from here as much as anywhere else.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Do y'all realize what has happened here? One troll with an agenda dug up one thread from years ago and did nothing except ruin your days and waste your time. Continue to argue your points of view if you must, but be aware of the influence it's taking on your lives.

Yep true. Doesn't mean it's not relevant or in need of discussion. However it's influence on my life is negligible. Ruining my day is far beyond what's happening here.

 

[Craig75]

What exactly does that mean? It's certainly not an excuse.

I'm not saying its an excuse - I'm saying minority is not a synonym for oppressed. Take 4 examples
1. i lived in a military junta for a while as a visitor - thats a majority being ruled by a minority.
2. black americans are a minority in both USA and Liberia but in Liberia they are the power brokers of the country (with a horrendous track record)
3. Im my own country, the UK, it was ruled by an aristocracy and mercantile elite minority until after WW1.
4. I lived in a chinese backed Jihadist country for a while - where a tiny elite with access to a lot of money and weapons ruled over a lot of diverse peoples.

I am sure people can think of many more circumstances

 

[JBrunner]

My 2 cents... the struggle to be recognized, let alone profit as an artist is universal. It cuts across every race, gender, gender identity, creed, persuasion, class, origin, body fat content, really any diversification imaginable. What unites all of these people is art. In my experience the social or cultural identity of the artist is not a consideration for an art buyer or investor, and good art exists across every financial and cultural spectrum imaginable. Is having means and time an advantage? Of course, but not so much as might be imagined when it comes to creating and selling and the internet has made the ability to find markets easier and less egalitarian than it has ever been.

True bigots do exist, and need to be called out but there are far less of them than the current narrative would have one believe, a large part of this climate being fueled by those who are looking for power and money, and find it by dividing us in the most banal ways possible.
Work to be done? Of course. But it needs to be honest. Dividing people in the way I have observed over maybe the last ten years has been completely regressive, and it is being perpetuated by nearly all of our so called ruling class.

 

[Craig75]

Do y'all realize what has happened here? One troll with an agenda dug up one thread from years ago and did nothing except ruin your days and waste your time. Continue to argue your points of view if you must, but be aware of the influence it's taking on your lives.

it is - but people have a lot of valid and diverse points too which are interesting to me when the thread restarted

 

[Cholentpot]

My 2 cents... the struggle to be recognized, let alone profit as an artist is universal. It cuts across every race, gender, gender identity, creed, persuasion, class, origin, body fat content, really any diversification imaginable. What unites all of these people is art. In my experience the social or cultural identity of the artist is not a consideration for an art buyer or investor, and good art exists across every financial and cultural spectrum imaginable. Is having means and time an advantage? Of course, but not so much as might be imagined when it comes to creating and selling art. The the internet has made the ability to find markets is easier than it has ever been.

True bigots do exist, and need to be called out but there are far less of them than the current narrative would have one believe, a large part of this climate being fueled by those who are looking for power and money, and find it by dividing us in the most banal ways possible.
Work to be done? Of course. But it needs to be honest. Dividing people in the way I have observed over maybe the last ten years has been completely regressive, and it is being perpetuated by nearly all of our so called ruling class.

Well said.

Something about 'United we stand' and 'melting pot' or is this now not a thing because of cultural appropriation?

 

[Sirius Glass]

I look at a person for what they can do or did with what they started with and their initial abilities, not by race, religion, or origin.

 

[BrianShaw]

and it is being perpetuated by nearly all of our so called ruling class.

There is truth to that but... it’s being perpetuated by much more than the so-called ruling class. That has caused escalation to a Hatfield v McCoy situation. If we could all just get along...

 

[Cholentpot]

I look at a person for what they can do or did with what they started with and their initial abilities, not by race, religion, or origin.

There was a young Doctor who said something along these lines way before I was born. I think he was forgotten in the annals of history though.

 

[JBrunner]

There is truth to that but... it’s being perpetuated by much more than the so-called ruling class. That has caused escalation to a Hatfield v McCoy situation. If we could all just get along...

And their minions...

 

[MartinCrabtree]

I'm not saying its an excuse - I'm saying minority is not a synonym for oppressed. Take 4 examples
1. i lived in a military junta for a while as a visitor - thats a majority being ruled by a minority.
2. black americans are a minority in both USA and Liberia but in Liberia they are the power brokers of the country (with a horrendous track record)
3. Im my own country, the UK, it was ruled by an aristocracy and mercantile elite minority until after WW1.
4. I lived in a chinese backed Jihadist country for a while - where a tiny elite with access to a lot of money and weapons ruled over a lot of diverse peoples.

I am sure people can think of many more circumstances

So how does that change what's been going on in the USA for hundreds of years? It's wrong in those places as well.

There was a young Doctor who said something along these lines way before I was born. I think he was forgotten in the annals of history though.

No he is not forgotten. Murdered for his (peaceful) beliefs.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Honestly it's sad this subject has to be discussed in the present tense.

 

[Cholentpot]

So how does that change what's been going on in the USA for hundreds of years? It's wrong in those places as well.



No he is not forgotten. Murdered for his (peaceful) beliefs.

'...not by the color of his skin but the content of his character.'

This seems to have been forgotten.

 

[Craig75]

So how does that change what's been going on in the USA for hundreds of years? It's wrong in those places as well.
.

The point being that minority as a byword for oppressed ethnic minority is very misleading. Marxists would probably say term minority should be for the elite ruling class and that the real struggle should have been a class struggle not a struggle based on race. Not that i am a marxist but oppressed minority has to predecate some sort of white hive mind majority when we have actually seen through 50s marxist witch hunts, censorship of comics, cia manipulation of art markets etc etc a far more systematic control of voices regardless of ethnicity.

(not that UK is any better - the most censorous monitored state in the "free world" with what was tantamount to a state controlled news akin to pravda for decades and decades)

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Social discourse? People are already getting fired for politically insensitive tweets they made when they were 14. We're marching full speed towards gulags with your "social discourse", my friend.



Look in the mirror. It's in present tense because you can't curb your lust to feel morally superior to imaginary "those" and politicians and advertisers prey on your weakness. There will always be a menu of things to feel outraged about.

I'm afraid you've assumed you know enough about me to draw conclusions about me.

Any chance you'll answer the question I posed?

 

[Cholentpot]

I'm afraid you've assumed you know enough about me to draw conclusions about me.

Any chance you'll answer the question I posed?

Oh, I can answer one of them.

The USA has this awesome rule about news and reporting like things yeah? Something about the people that we put in charge can't own it or something. Like there's no BBC in the Americans country. I think it's called the First Rule? First Commandment? First Fixer...First Amendment!

We're free to criticize and debate our chosen leaders. Therefore we air our warts and wrinkles for all too see. It's not pretty but it's somewhat honest. I don't think any other country in the world has this rule codified into law. This is one of the reasons you'll never see something like Hate Speech codified into law in the USA, or misuse of pronouns or anything like that. As long as I'm not shouting fire in someone else's theater it's all cool. Doesn't mean I have to like it when the NuevoNazis (tm) come marching through my holocaust survivor neighborhood, but that's what the 2A is for, and a discussion for somewhere else.