Photographers' Formulary Fixer TF-5

[Photo Engineer]

TF5 is not alkaline. It is near neutral (pH 6.5 AAMOF).

As I said above, fix and wash times are generous and you should determine them yourself based on workflow and water supply.

PE

 

[pstake]

Ok ... thanks for the rundown, Michael.

 

[pstake]

I must have been typing while you were responding. Read my last paragraph.

Ten four.

Thanks, again, man.

 

[jgjbowen]

I had the same reservations Michael, and that's why I posed the question to Ron. I think most of us would agree that Ron's knowledge of photochemisty would surpass that of most of us. However, I called Formulary last year, and asked about the affect of TF5 on Azo papers developed in Amidol. The person who answered was unable to provide an answer, and until the affect was known, suggested that it would be best to eschew the use of TF5 when using such materials. Perhaps Ron would like to chime in again?

I've been using TF5 with Azo and Amidol since TF5 first hit the market. No issues to report.

 

[Mahler_one]

Thanks John. I have ordered some for use with Lodima and Amidol. Appreciate the personal experience. However, have you had the opportunity to compare a print ( contemporaneously, side by side ) fixed in TF5 with one fixed in plain hypo? Just curious and realize that most of us would be unlikely to compare the "color" of prints fixed in several different fixers. Not trying to be difficult John...just wondering.

 

[Mahler_one]

I guess not.

 

[jp498]

I'd guess this was recommended for tmax film, as that film requires more fixing time in normal fixer, and switching the tf4/tf5 will save a great deal of time.

tf4 is also the magic bullet that stopped my pinhole problem with fomapan 100 sheets. tf4 works well for film and paper, but gets kinda stinky in big trays (>8x10), so the tf5 would be a better choice for big paper.

I buy it where shipping is affordable. I'm on the east coast, some that's often b&h or sometimes amazon.

 

[Mahler_one]

I completely agree....

 

[pstake]

It took about 30 minutes to clear my film ... Tri-X and Delta 400.

So it works fine but takes a long time ... this was with normal agitation for the first 15 minutes.

 

[Photo Engineer]

This does not sound right. TF-5 is faster than that for Tri-X. Are you sure you used the correct dilution?

PE

 

[pstake]

1 liter of TF-5 plus 3 liters water. I refilled the Tf-5 container three times, mixed into my normal, brown 1 gallon jug, to be sure I used all of the product.

I thought it was strange that it took so long. I figured 10 minutes with normal agitation. Will be doing another batch tonight and let you know if it's the same. Tonight's will be with Fomapan 100 and Neopan 400.

 

[removed account4]

my fix times were never that slow ...
but i only used tf5 once, mixed it with
distilled water as recommended and
it reeked of ammonia so much i stopped using it
and went back to sprint fixer.
haven't used anything but spring ( except for tf5 ) since about 1981 ...
fixes fast and a huge capacity.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Pstake;

I suggest that you contact the Formulary. You may get some help there.

Is the mean time, is this a recent purchase? Can we get the batch number from the bottle?

John;

TF-5 should be slightly acidic and should NOT have an ammonia odor John. It was designed to avoid that problem which was present with TF-4.

Something odd going on here.

PE

 

[Roger Cole]

I was seriously considering making the switch as I'll need to order more fixer soon (been using Koday RF, was thinking of ordering Freestyle's house brand which I can get in 5 gallon size) and was just wondering what these conservative recommended wash times were like, how they compared to my current times with RF+Hypo Clear, when I saw the bit about long fix times for film.

I could just as easily go on using RF for film and TF5 for paper. For that matter I've always used hardener for my films. Yes, I know, modern films are pre-hardened and that only applies while the film is wet, but I've been reluctant to test that. I also have a nearly full box of 100 sheet 4x5 Efke that I got with another purchase, basically thrown in, and wanted to try and hardener is usually with Efke.

So what are the conservative recommended wash times for TF5 with papers? And if I extend its use to film what are the usual fix times? 30 minutes is clearly absurd - I just wouldn't use it if it took that long.

 

[Photo Engineer]

From the Formulary stuffer sheet!

Wash fiber-based papers for at least 15 minutes - up to 25 minutes. Wash resin coated papers at least 3 minutes - up to 5.

Note: To establish proper washing times for your system we recommend testing processed emulsions with our Formulary Residual Hypo Test kit (cat. no. 03-0150). Since every darkroom has a different washing system (i.e. from hose in tray to archival print washer) our recommended wash times are approximate. Please test your system for wash times.

Fix T-Max film for 6 minutes, with 5 inversions once a minute; or fix for 4 minutes with 30 seconds of agitation per minute. With other films, fix only 3 to 4 minutes.

I have tested this with T-Max and Tri-X as well as Ilford MGIV papers and have 5 year tests on the fix/wash data. If anyone gets anything different (longer fix or wash times), then something is seriously wrong. Note the comment about water supply. This is the single biggest variable.

I also suggest using a residual silver test kit to ensure good fixation. I use it all the time.

PE

 

[pstake]

For what it's worth, i use tap water. Our water here in Lincoln, Nebraska, is hard. But it's not that hard. It's at least not as hard as where I used to live on the border of Northern New Mexico and Arizona. But it's probably hard enough to affect the fixer. That said, I am not exaggerating when I say 30 minutes fix time. I fixed for 15 minutes with normal agittaion (10 inversions the first minute, four inverstions per minute thereafter) for 15 minutes, and it was foggy. I then put it in a clear glass container and filled the container with fix, last time. As always, YMMV.

Ron, I will get back to you with the batch number of my Fixer. My guess is that it's just because we have hard water.

 

[pstake]

Ron, there is a number 1049 in the top left corner of the back label. I assume that is the batch number.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Inform the Formulary. I will run some tests here and inquire about the batch #.

IDK how the batch #s are set up there, so all I can do is go through them. I have tested authentic hand mixed TF-5 and it does NOT take 30' with any film! I do know that Sherry was on vacation last week, and IDK what the score is this week. I'll stay on top of this.

PE

 

[Roger Cole]

Those are still longer times for film than I use with RF. I may try this for paper and stick with RF for film. Thanks for the info - that stuff isn't on the Formulary site. Freestyle has a link to the MSDS but not the info sheet.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The info sheet is apparently on the Formulary site and a copy is packed with every bottle (I am told). The times, as you asked, are the conservative values. Give it your own test.

Pe

 

[Roger Cole]

Humm, if it's on the site it a link wasn't listed with the item description, which is where I'd expect it. I can look again but I have the info now. I presumed I'd get it with an order, just wanted an idea to help with buying decisions.

 

[pstake]

I looked at the fomapan after 15 minutes and it had cleared. I actually re-used the same fixer as last time.

I ended up leaving everything in the fixer for 30 minutes just to be on the safe side, but the need for 30' appears to have been a fluke.

My bottle didn't come with a separate info sheet but it has a lot of information on the back of the bottle. I like that you can re-use a liter of mixed fixer for between 15 and 20 rolls of film.

 

[Formulary/Bud Wilson]

Hi all;

I just now tested the batch #1049 and #1052 the current on the shelf batch.
Mixed as directed by instrcution sheet, except did not use distilled H2O, I used our well water.

The way that fix is tested at the Formulary for its activity, is as follows, and this is how it was done just a few minutes ago.

Get a roll of TriX film. Pull about 3 inches and cut from canister, Set timer, Emerse film strip in working solution fix. Agitate first 30 seconds,
Watch film to see how long it takes to clear, when clear record time it took.

Today it took one minute and fifteen seconds to clear. For proper fix time please double clearing time. 2 1/2 min.
Our instructions say 3-4. Working solution was only 54 degrees F.

Please if any body has any TF-4 or TF-5 that does not fit the above parameters, PLEASE ADVISE ME.
I will refund your money, I will replace any defective product, we have been here doing this 34 years, we will make it right for you, but only if you tell US.
Sorry TF-5 does not take 30 minutes to clear.
Please send me a sample of the product you are using so we can do the above simple test here and find out what mite possibly be wrong. But only if you tell me and let me help you solve it.

Now we have Photo Engineer's blood pressure up and what good does that do?

Best to all and do it in the dark
Bud

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks Bud.

I ran the tests with Rochester tap water and got 1 minute to clear.

The fix did not smell of ammonia. However, if you use a rinse of still water after development and run TF-5 to near exhaustion, it will smell like ammonia.

If it comes out of the bottle smelling of ammonia, I would contact the Forulary. The pH as mixed is about 6.5.

PE

 

[pstake]

Okay, Bud and Ron ...

Didn't mean to alarm anyone. I had just mixed the TF-5 when I used it the first time and it took so long to clear. Like I said, it worked better / faster last night. I'm satisfied with the product but will be happy to send you a sample if you'd like. Was just posting my experience because I was the OP on this thread. Was not trying to slight TF-5 in any way.

Thanks for taking so much care and interest in your product!

Best,
Phil