Photographer posts; photographers seeking "validation"

[rpavich]

It depends on what they are doing.

I was asking Janian. He's condemning folks who tell others that they are doing the wrong thing...but he's actually doing what he says not to do...self refuting position.

 

[removed account4]

Do you think it's wrong that one person tell another person that they should stop doing what they are doing?

it depends what they are doing ... if it has to do with darkroom and camera experimentation, no i don't think it is my or anyone elses place to tell someone
to stop what they are doing, unless they are doing something dangerous, like mixing an acid with a cyanide darkroom product. or dumping toxic waste down the drain or
in their backyard, then yes i will tell them that what they are doing isn't very good .. but processing their film or exposing their negatives or making their prints in whatever way they want
and then showing others what they did, sounds fine to me ... personally i think there should be more of that ... its just photography... and as i said, it is too bad the
gatekeepers and self proclaimed watchdogs keep hassling people who want to expand their own experience. if the tables were turned and people who experimented
( alot or a little ) made the same harsh commentary &c it would be equally has lame.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Do you think it's wrong that one person tell another person that they should stop doing what they are doing?

It very much depends on why you're doing it and how you're doing it. If you're doing it as gentle guidance - "maybe you should try something else, because your results are consistently failing to match your stated goals" that's one thing. But if it's to tell them to quit trying because their results aren't matching YOUR (that's the generic your, not you specifically) stated goals, that's something else.

 

[rpavich]

it depends what they are doing ... if it has to do with darkroom and camera experimentation, no i don't think it is my or anyone elses place to tell someone
to stop what they are doing, unless they are doing something dangerous, like mixing an acid with a cyanide darkroom product. or dumping toxic waste down the drain or
in their backyard, then yes i will tell them that what they are doing isn't very good .. but processing their film or exposing their negatives or making their prints in whatever way they want
and then showing others what they did, sounds fine to me ... personally i think there should be more of that ... its just photography... and as i said, it is too bad the
gatekeepers and self proclaimed watchdogs keep hassling people who want to expand their own experience. if the tables were turned and people who experimented
( alot or a little ) made the same harsh commentary &c it would be equally has lame.

None of which was the subject of the OP's post.
He never said it's bad to experiment, that everyone must do the exact same thing and tow the line.

 

[rpavich]

It very much depends on why you're doing it and how you're doing it. If you're doing it as gentle guidance - "maybe you should try something else, because your results are consistently failing to match your stated goals" that's one thing. But if it's to tell them to quit trying because their results aren't matching YOUR (that's the generic your, not you specifically) stated goals, that's something else.

Re-read the OP...that's not what he said was happening.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Re-read the OP...that's not what he said was happening.

The discussion has moved on. I was responding to your comment about telling someone to stop doing what they're doing.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

All this senseless complaining and criticality of one anther. You're ALL doing it WRONG!! Where are all the bad words?!?

 

[removed account4]

None of which was the subject of the OP's post.
He never said it's bad to experiment, that everyone must do the exact same thing and tow the line.

When I was young (and dinosaurs roamed the earth) this whole "interweb" thing did not exist. We had great photo magazines like the British Journal of Photography, Modern Photography and Popular Photography. And we had "gurus" that wrote monthly columns; folks like David Vestal and Cora Wright Kennedy, etc.

These folks and many others wrote monthly columns mostly detailing their own adventures in the darkroom. There were other mags and other writers but I noticed a trend, more and more folks writing to ask, not for advice, but rather for validation for whatever hair-brained half-cocked exposure or processing notion they had already conceived. If the columnist, based on "lo their many years doing something the right way" told the newcomer it won't work, the newbie would start an argument. Later in my timeline the columnists started suggesting an experimental method the newcomer could use to test his idea in the laboratory/darkroom and would again get ignored.

using derogatory expressions like hair-brained and half-cocked isn't suggesting it is bad to experiment ?

seems like the same old same old to me ...

 

[faberryman]

I don't think anyone has said that one should not experiment. It's a manufactured argument.

 

[removed account4]

I don't think anyone has said that one should not experiment. It's a manufactured argument.

00PS!

it seemedhis original statement
that he had complained about that,
and then afterwards that the gurus gave out "assignments"
and were snubbed..

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

There's different kinds of validation. There's the "atta boy" comment like "nice shot". We just need a slap on the back because our ego wants to feel good. That person is not looking for a critique.

Then there's the new photographer who really doesn't know if his work is any good. He's looking for validation to assure himself he's on the right path.

Then there's the experienced photographer who may be trying new things. They want to know if anyone thinks their work makes sense and is liked by people beside themselves.

All of these are valid approaches with most of our life's experiences.

 

[blockend]

There's probably too much experimentation. and not enough love of subject matter. Photographers can spend their entire careers seeing what the world looks like through this lens or that format, cross processed and filtered, and never arrive at a working method. At least with cooking you get to eat the ingredients at the end.

 

[Craig75]

you do all understand that you have been totally trolled?

 

[MattKing]

It seems to me that the issue raised by the OP is mostly about the effects of interacting with others long distance through the internet as compared to other, more personal forms of interaction.
I do have others I can talk to personally about my photography, and collectively they have a wide and deep pool of knowledge and experience to draw upon.
Many of the people on Photrio are not so lucky.
My general rule of thumb is that if I don't know much about someone, I assume that a post that gives the sense that someone is seeking validaion is coming from someone who doesn't have a good personal source for the validation that we all appreciate.
I do, however, detest posts that purport to be questions but instead have a built in "I'm right and all of you are wrong" tone. For those people, the "Ignore" function is quite useful.

 

[jtk]

I'm just throwing this out here to see if others feel this way, too.
......
I guess what I'm saying is that these NOOBS aren't asking for advice, are not seeking the right way to do things, they are just bragging about their way of doing it and seeking validation. What's your take? I don't really know how to parse this as a poll, but if someone else would create one, I'll participate.

Sounds like darkroommike's concerns are with perceived attitudes and imagined generational differences in chat rooms.

Time marches on. Change is a bitch. Some of us feel left behind.

Generational gap is an issue for me at 74 because the millennials I admire are doing tech things that I envy (and with tech that I only faintly grasp, such as blockchain).

 

[trondareo]

It seems we are all here for validation.

 

[slackercrurster]

OP...dunno. Generally people like to share their work. Sometimes people are very stingy and hide their work for fear of people stealing a low res useless image.

I like putting my work online. They can like it or not, don't really care. I just want the opportunity to do it. May not seem like much to you, but in our heavily censored word sometimes it an issue.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It seems we are all here for validation.

I am not here for validation. I am here to learn new things and to help others when I can.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Nothing wrong with "atta boys", we all need them.

 

[jtk]

[QUOTE="Alan Edward Klein, post: 2048374, member: 85761"]There's different kinds of validation. There's the "atta boy" comment like "nice shot". We just need a slap on the back because our ego wants to feel good. That person is not looking for a critique.

Then there's the new photographer who really doesn't know if his work is any good. He's looking for validation to assure himself he's on the right path.

Then there's the experienced photographer who may be trying new things. They want to know if anyone thinks their work makes sense and is liked by people beside themselves.

All of these are valid approaches with most of our life's experiences.[/QUOTE]

I don't think honestly aspiring "new photographers" are looking for "assurance" or "validation" so much as honest-seeming responses.

A classic Minor White assignment called for taking prints out into the street, among presumed non-photographers, and asking ten of them for responses.

 

[jtk]

I am not here for validation. I am here to learn new things and to help others when I can.

Serius, we seem rarely to agree but we're on the same page here !