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Photo Printing Paper for enlarging and not Inkjet........

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thinkbrown said:
I'm a huge fan of fomaspeed 313. The velvet texture is far and away my favorite. I've also been using a roll of 5" Kodak polycontrast III that I picked up on eBay for 5x7 prints and that's pretty nice stuff.


I've mostly been developing in id78, though I've been doing some experiments recently with using parodinal 1:20 as a paper developer which seems to yield surprisingly good results.
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I've heard other folks say the velvet texture finish is to die for. I have never tried it, but might someday just to see. As for pricing of papers and film? Since this administration threaten and put in place some tariffs, all prices are insecure. I can now buy Kodak B&W films cheaper than Ilford films and shy away from Ilford papers, even if I prefer them, since they are increasing in price. The trouble is we haven't even reached the peak yet when talking about tariffs. Hmm, I thought the price of things were suppose to go down and not up? The price of my photo hobbies goes any higher I'll revert to an easel, paper and charcoal. I just want a good film, a good paper and good developer at a reasonable price, but fear that won't be possible in the near to distant future.
 
Purchase a reliably available paper with a good track record.
The same can be said for a developer and other processing chemicals.
I have tried other impressive papers but they are now long gone !
The masters of yesterday made their mark with a handful of single grade papers and not so obscure developers; same goes for film.
There is no magic bullet that will replace good darkroom practice.
 
Melvin J Bramley said:
Purchase a reliably available paper with a good track record.
The same can be said for a developer and other processing chemicals.
I have tried other impressive papers but they are now long gone !
The masters of yesterday made their mark with a handful of single grade papers and not so obscure developers; same goes for film.
There is no magic bullet that will replace good darkroom practice.
Click to expand...

We're down to very few choices....pretty much Ilford or Foma...
 
Yes, I know there is no magic bullet, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I want to buy a gun that I can get bullets for in the future.. The same goes for film and printing paper. I'm not worried about developers since I'll be able to get chemicals pretty much forever and make my own developers. Paper seems to be the biggest stumbling block down the road. I'm really surprised that the Chinese haven't devoted some effort and research into making a fine art paper and real first class film.
I guess I could go down PE's road of emulsion making and never have to worry about running out of paper. I just don't have the time, equipment or expertise to do that. I thing Greg Y is right, Ilford and Foma. Be happy I at least have those choices.
 
John Wiegerink said:
Yes, I know there is no magic bullet, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I want to buy a gun that I can get bullets for in the future.. The same goes for film and printing paper. I'm not worried about developers since I'll be able to get chemicals pretty much forever and make my own developers. Paper seems to be the biggest stumbling block down the road. I'm really surprised that the Chinese haven't devoted some effort and research into making a fine art paper and real first class film.
I guess I could go down PE's road of emulsion making and never have to worry about running out of paper. I just don't have the time, equipment or expertise to do that. I thing Greg Y is right, Ilford and Foma. Be happy I at least have those choices.
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for film try Lucky SHD 100
 
When I dove back in I first tried my Ilford MGIV that was lurking in a closet. It had some fog, so I simply bought fresh Ilford. When I needed more paper, I gave the Foma a try. I like it so far.

I haven't been doing any toning lately, and I've been using Ilford multigrade developer as well.

I'm a bit curious now if messing around with different paper developers yields as much vs all the craziness we get into with film developers.
 
MTGseattle said:
When I dove back in I first tried my Ilford MGIV that was lurking in a closet. It had some fog, so I simply bought fresh Ilford. When I needed more paper, I gave the Foma a try. I like it so far.

I haven't been doing any toning lately, and I've been using Ilford multigrade developer as well.

I'm a bit curious now if messing around with different paper developers yields as much vs all the craziness we get into with film developers.
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I remember reading in the old "Darkroom Techniques" magazine a review or test of several different paper developers. I think it was like five or six developers that were I believe all real type developers. I'm sure Ilford Multigrade, Dektol, Edwal "Ultra Black"? and others were in it. If I remember correctly they didn't much change the color tone, but did vary the density and depth of the papers black. I wish I had kept all my old back issues, but that's hindsight I guess.
 
John Wiegerink said:
I remember reading in the old "Darkroom Techniques" magazine a review or test of several different paper developers. I think it was like five or six developers that were I believe all real type developers. I'm sure Ilford Multigrade, Dektol, Edwal "Ultra Black"? and others were in it. If I remember correctly they didn't much change the color tone, but did vary the density and depth of the papers black. I wish I had kept all my old back issues, but that's hindsight I guess.
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Here's the great paper/developer shootout done by Bruce Barlow:
 
John - There are probably hundreds of different film and paper developer formulas. I've cooked up at least half a dozen new tweaks of my own. But what worked best on some of the classic old graded papers might not work quite as well with some of today's graded papers. It all depends. It's been so long since I've used any Dektol that the few remaining packs of it on my storage shelf are probably petrified.

I like to tailor specific paper/developer/toner combinations to specific images. I'm not of the "one shoe size fits all" mentality.

The editor of Darkroom Techniques lived right across the street from my gallery agent at the time. He kept asking me to write some articles; but the glossy architectural magazines paid far better.
 
My Fomatone Classic, processed in Ilford Multigrade developer, untoned, is a lovely 'olive' color.
Strongly selenium-toned, it's a lovely 'plum' color.
 
GregY said:
Here's the great paper/developer shootout done by Bruce Barlow:
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Wow! Thanks a ton for this. It could be the actual article I read. I didn't remember that many combinations, but at my age memory isn't one of the things I brag about anymore. Even if many of the papers and developers are long gone it's still a very educational bit of reading. Greg, thanks again for posting this.
 
AnselMortensen said:
My Fomatone Classic, processed in Ilford Multigrade developer, untoned, is a lovely 'olive' color.
Strongly selenium-toned, it's a lovely 'plum' color.
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I haven't tried Fomatone Classic, but it sounds as if it selenium tones slightly better than Fomabrom or at least tones more in the direction I'm looking for.
DREW WILEY said:
John - There are probably hundreds of different film and paper developer formulas. I've cooked up at least half a dozen new tweaks of my own. But what worked best on some of the classic old graded papers might not work quite as well with some of today's graded papers. It all depends. It's been so long since I've used any Dektol that the few remaining packs of it on my storage shelf are probably petrified.

I like to tailor specific paper/developer/toner combinations to specific images. I'm not of the "one shoe size fits all" mentality.

The editor of Darkroom Techniques lived right across the street from my gallery agent at the time. He kept asking me to write some articles; but the glossy architectural magazines paid far better.
Click to expand...


I started out with graded paper since that's all there was at that time and got pretty good at burning, dodging, Dektol, Selectol soft and Dr. Beer's for fine tuning. It took me a while to warm up to polycontrast paper. I'd use some polycontrat paper, it not coming out the way I'd want and would sideline it. I'd go back to Ilford Galerie graded and plain old Ilfobrom. That went on for a long time. The good old days!
 
I am much more a color photographer, and most of my darkroom prints are RA-4. But I do occasionally some black and white prints too. I use almost exclusively RC coated papers. I like Foma, because its base is clear white compared to Ilford´s slightly yellowish base color. Otherwise, both papers are good. I prefer pearl papers to glossy. For developer, my choice has been Neutol since the late 1980´s, when it was an Agfa product. I have stayed with it, although it is now made by ADOX.
 
Samu said:
I am much more a color photographer, and most of my darkroom prints are RA-4. But I do occasionally some black and white prints too. I use almost exclusively RC coated papers. I like Foma, because its base is clear white compared to Ilford´s slightly yellowish base color. Otherwise, both papers are good. I prefer pearl papers to glossy. For developer, my choice has been Neutol since the late 1980´s, when it was an Agfa product. I have stayed with it, although it is now made by ADOX.
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Neutol is one developer I have never used. Have no idea what it brings to the table in way of tones or looks. I did use Ethol's LPD for a very long time, but now it's ID-62 and (not lately) ID-78.
 
John Wiegerink said:
Neutol is one developer I have never used. Have no idea what it brings to the table in way of tones or looks. I did use Ethol's LPD for a very long time, but now it's ID-62 and (not lately) ID-78.
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Agfa Neutol & Neutol WA (warmtone) were commonly available in shops in the pre-internet age. They were economical and produced good results.
 
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Neutol gave a slightly softer look, but not as greenish as Selectol soft. Paul Caponigro was fond of Neutol, and made his famous running white deer prints using that. He also liked single-weight paper for some reason, but complained how easily it got torn up in his aggressive tub washer.

I should be pretty easy to cook up one's own version of that developer.
 
DREW WILEY said:
Neutol gave a slightly softer look, but not as greenish as Selectol soft. Paul Caponigro was fond of Neutol, and made his famous running white deer prints using that. He also liked single-weight paper for some reason, but complained how easily it got torn up in his aggressive tub washer.

I should be pretty easy to cook up one's own version of that developer.
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If you can buy the Adox version why bother mixing your own?
 
I really don't plan to do either, since Neutol isn't on my radar. But I mix all my own developers anyway; it's less expensive that way, plus I can custom tweak the formulas as I wish, if needed. Others might prefer something pre-packaged; that's fine too.
 
GregY said:
Here's the great paper/developer shootout done by Bruce Barlow:
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. that was an interesting read. I still envision something like this in my future due to the silly amount of old paper I've picked up in the last year. I will simplify quite a bit; stoufer 21 step wedge to test for maximum black, and I'll stick with a single developer.
 
Good luck with that. DMax with old paper is like calisthenics with old arthritic joints.
 
Yeah, maybe I should call a spade a spade and just say I need to test for fog. As many of you know who have been doing this longer than me, I may not get the same results through a given box of paper anyway.
 
When I first fell in love with the darkroom 20 years ago, I loved Kodak Polycontrast and Agfa MCC paper. I don’t think there anything with those same tones available anymore, is there? I’ve been trying Ilford Cooltone.
 
I have always been a little puzzled as to why super good, super popular products disappear and never seem to reappear. Yeah, sure, they might come back into production by name only and are not the same quality as the original. Or the brand name has been purchased and now the company is trying to pass of junk relying on the "brand name" to sell it. It sure seems that if Oriental Seagull was that good of a paper, and it was that good, then why isn't some manufacture picking up on it? Same for older Agfa, Kodak and Forte papers. If folks are willing to pay top dollar for some films then I'm sure they would do the same for a paper with a great Dmax and heavy silver content.
The problem that enlarging papers suffer, compared to the B&W films produced today, is that folks can used B&W film to produce Inkjet or digital prints. That means there is more of a market for B&W film than there is for a really top notch B&W printing paper. Or any printing paper for that matter. The lower amount of replies to this thread itself bares this out. The only solution to this problem is for all of us here to break our darkroom equipment out of storage and get going on some "REAL" printing. I'm not going to hold my breath!
 
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