Photo mounting question (possibly stupid)

[logan2z]

Exactly. My point was we should not be surprised that Friedlander would have done this himself or that it was out of the ordinary somehow. I have actually seen prints mounted this way and I think they look very elegant, with semi-glossy surface of the FB silver gelatin contrasting with the rich texture of slightly warm cotton papers.

I guess the other advantage of dry mounting a fiber-based print is that it will lay perfectly flat, although flattening them in a dry mount press and then using a window mat gets you pretty much there too.

 

[nmp]

I guess the other advantage of dry mounting a fiber-based print is that it will lay perfectly flat, although flattening them in a dry mount press and then using a window mat gets you pretty much there too.

I like the finality of a dry-mounted print. I still have some of my first dry-mounted prints and they are as good as when I made them. They don't move around or warp because of moisture or temperature as some of my inkjet prints do time to time, mounted with the hinges like they recommend these days. Still though I probably won't go back to doing dry-mounting, not because the museum called and asked me not to (yeah right!) but because the alternate methods are just simpler.

 

[jtk]

Gatorfoam is far more rigid than other synthetic materials, is said to be "archival and acid-free" ... a favorite of galleries that now mostly exhibit large prints (because photographers often favor them).

https://www.dickblick.com/products/richeson-gator-foam-premium-pastel-surfaces/

I just saw an astounding flush-mounted 30X45 (guesstimate) DANNY LYON print at Etherton ....Gatorfoam.

https://ethertongallery.com/profile/danny-lyon/ (this image is not my favorite Danny Lyon)

Some folks like to hold prints in their hands, but I hang them on walls because I like visitors to see them in good light and without handling. My primary size is 13X19 because my printer won't go bigger. I find that most top quality inkjet paper lays flat no matter humidity.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Gatorfoam is far more rigid than other synthetic materials, is said to be "archival and acid-free" ... a favorite of galleries that now mostly exhibit large prints (because photographers often favor them).

https://www.dickblick.com/products/richeson-gator-foam-premium-pastel-surfaces/

I just saw an astounding flush-mounted 30X45 (guesstimate) DANNY LYON print at Etherton ....Gatorfoam.

https://ethertongallery.com/profile/danny-lyon/ (this image is not my favorite Danny Lyon)

Some folks like to hold prints in their hands, but I hang them on walls because I like visitors to see them in good light and without handling. My primary size is 13X19 because my printer won't go bigger. I find that most top quality inkjet paper lays flat no matter humidity.

Sorry but Gatorboard is absolutely the worst product to be using ..

 

[Bob Carnie]

I should add a solution rather than just poo poo a product... Almost every artist exhibiting large prints are using #1 diabond.. Followed #2 Sintra Followed #3 Museum Rag 4 and 8ply

 

[Vaughn]

Looks like hot pressed watercolor paper to me. You can buy that stuff pretty thick (600 GSM isn't too hard to find). You can buy it in acid and lignin free, so it can be archival.

Actually looks to be cold pressed watercolor paper that have been run thru a press to create a flattened (embossed) rectangle in the middle. The silver gelatin print was then dry-mounted in the center of the embossed area. The whole sheet of watercolor paper was then tipped onto mount board using corners.

This a very nice way to make a set of prints for a portfolio set as it reduces the bulk of the set. And it looks very cool and professional. Prints in portfolios of this type were not made to be framed, but to remain as a set -- and viewed as shown in the video -- thus the mounting requirements/methods are different than framed prints.

Dry-mounting has it's advantages. Someone already mentioned flatness. The other advantage, especially for mounting on thin paper, is that is creates a waterproof and air-tight barrier between the environment and the back of the print. Dry-mounting does not damage or shorten the life of the print itself -- its main disadvantage is making it difficult to remount the print if the mounting material gets damaged, or if the print itself must be washed.

 

[jtk]

Sorry but Gatorboard is absolutely the worst product to be using ..

Bob, please provide a non-goofy comment.

What's your experience with Gatorboard? What have YOU found to be better for mounting 30X45" prints (like Danny Lyon's)?

 

[jtk]

I should add a solution rather than just poo poo a product... Almost every artist exhibiting large prints are using #1 diabond.. Followed #2 Sintra Followed #3 Museum Rag 4 and 8ply

What do you mean by "large prints?"

I wonder what Avedon used for his?

Have you surveyed "almost every artist" ?

 

[jtk]

I like the finality of a dry-mounted print. I still have some of my first dry-mounted prints and they are as good as when I made them. They don't move around or warp because of moisture or temperature as some of my inkjet prints do time to time, mounted with the hinges like they recommend these days. Still though I probably won't go back to doing dry-mounting, not because the museum called and asked me not to (yeah right!) but because the alternate methods are just simpler.[/QUOTE

I don't find that good inkjet paper (e.g. Hahnemeule, Moab, Ilfor, Canon's various papers, ) warps with humidity changes. That applies to both 100% cotton and cellulose. What inkjet paper has caused you flatness problems?

I don't do ANY mounting with mine (which remains flat without mounting): I display behind glass, using spacers around edges to distance the glass from the paper when planning for long term.

 

[removed account4]

Have you surveyed "almost every artist" ?

Can you please provide a few names of artists who currently use gater board ?
I wonder if because the sometimes ephemeral nature of modern photography if that is taken into
consideration in the mounting of the prints ?

Sounds like a great / sturdy product !

 

[Bob Carnie]

What do you mean by "large prints?"

I wonder what Avedon used for his?

Have you surveyed "almost every artist" ?

Do your research.. first off try Wilheims book on this 1995 era.. then approach Museum and ask for their policy... Gatorboard has stopped being use in the industry since 2005.. sorry I can only lead you to the water... you know the rest.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Bob, please provide a non-goofy comment.

What's your experience with Gatorboard? What have YOU found to be better for mounting 30X45" prints (like Danny Lyon's)?

Diabond is the go too substrate that I use. as I suggested... next Sintra... Next 8ply museum Rag.

Gatorboard is for commercial jobs slated to be up for 1 year and not a product any fine printing mounting shop would recommend. once again I would suggest you should do your homework.

My experience
Recently for shits and giggles.... Magnum Photographer - we produced five 72 inch silver gelatin prints Mounted to 8 ply Rag.... Last year Armoury Show in New York - 58 inch by 88 inch inkjet mounted to diabond then framed.

 

[guangong]

My friend, the late Louie Stettner, years ago warned me that dry mounting a print using tissue greatly reduced its cash value. Since then I have only used my press for flattening photographs, warped pages, etc.

 

[nmp]

Actually looks to be cold pressed watercolor paper that have been run thru a press to create a flattened (embossed) rectangle in the middle. The silver gelatin print was then dry-mounted in the center of the embossed area. The whole sheet of watercolor paper was then tipped onto mount board using corners.

This a very nice way to make a set of prints for a portfolio set as it reduces the bulk of the set. And it looks very cool and professional. Prints in portfolios of this type were not made to be framed, but to remain as a set -- and viewed as shown in the video -- thus the mounting requirements/methods are different than framed prints.

Dry-mounting has it's advantages. Someone already mentioned flatness. The other advantage, especially for mounting on thin paper, is that is creates a waterproof and air-tight barrier between the environment and the back of the print. Dry-mounting does not damage or shorten the life of the print itself -- its main disadvantage is making it difficult to remount the print if the mounting material gets damaged, or if the print itself must be washed.

Thanks Vaughn for the definitive post on OP's question. Looks like the rest of the thread has gone tangential now....

 

[logan2z]

My friend, the late Louie Stettner, years ago warned me that dry mounting a print using tissue greatly reduced its cash value. Since then I have only used my press for flattening photographs, warped pages, etc.

Love Stettner's work. The recent retrospective at SFMoMa was terrific.

 

[jim10219]

Actually looks to be cold pressed watercolor paper that have been run thru a press to create a flattened (embossed) rectangle in the middle. The silver gelatin print was then dry-mounted in the center of the embossed area. The whole sheet of watercolor paper was then tipped onto mount board using corners.

This a very nice way to make a set of prints for a portfolio set as it reduces the bulk of the set. And it looks very cool and professional. Prints in portfolios of this type were not made to be framed, but to remain as a set -- and viewed as shown in the video -- thus the mounting requirements/methods are different than framed prints.

Dry-mounting has it's advantages. Someone already mentioned flatness. The other advantage, especially for mounting on thin paper, is that is creates a waterproof and air-tight barrier between the environment and the back of the print. Dry-mounting does not damage or shorten the life of the print itself -- its main disadvantage is making it difficult to remount the print if the mounting material gets damaged, or if the print itself must be washed.

This is very interesting! Thanks for the info!

 

[Pieter12]

What do you mean by "large prints?"

I wonder what Avedon used for his?

Have you surveyed "almost every artist" ?

I'm not sure Avedon's large prints were mounted.

 

[logan2z]

Thanks Vaughn for the definitive post on OP's question. Looks like the rest of the thread has gone tangential now....

Yes, thank you for the response. Very informative.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks Vaughn for the definitive post on OP's question. Looks like the rest of the thread has gone tangential now....

My pleasure. Once posts have been effectively covered, I like the tangential movement in the posts...especially when dedicated and experienced pros like Bob can add to the conversations.

Edited to add:

I mount prints in the way that I feel best works with the image, print process, the type of paper the image is on, and the way it is to be displayed. This included dry-mounting of my 16x20 silver gelatin prints I use to make. The window in the 24"x28" 4-ply board was cut about one inch larger than the image, and the print (trimmed to the image area) was drymounted within the window -- showing the edge of the print's paper. Nothing 'hidden'. As an artist, this is more important to me than the increase/decrease in its perceived monatary value.

My platinum prints and carbon prints are attached by corners I make from heavy interleaving paper. The windows (8-ply board) for platinum prints are cut to include about 1/8" of the black beyond the film rebate, the carbon prints' windows (8-ply) are cut with a minimum of over-lap of the image area.

The frame choice is equally as important. To me, the entire process, from the first seeing of the potential image to the framing is One. Each step is equally important.

 

[nmp]

Once posts have been effectively covered, I like the tangential movement in the posts...especially when dedicated and experienced pros like Bob can add to the conversations.

OK, I will agree to that.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I'm not sure Avedon's large prints were mounted.

Incredible installation

 

[Vaughn]

And I love the way the guy's head goes into the notch of the left image -- one of the reason I show the film rebate of my platinum prints.

 

[Bob Carnie]

And I love the way the guy's head goes into the notch of the left image -- one of the reason I show the film rebate of my platinum prints.

I have the book of these images... I respect Avedon's work.
Do you think it was planned that way in taking of the photograph?

 

[Vaughn]

I think it is a good possibility, as he prints full-frame and obviously knows what the camera/lens is seeing. When I photograph, I know it is a possibility. For me, the sides and corners of the image are as important to image as the center...and I know that the notches will be part of the image. The center can not exist without the corners and will not be as powerful if the corners are not taken into serious consideration.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I think it is a good possibility, as he prints full-frame and obviously knows what the camera/lens is seeing. When I photograph, I know it is a possibility. For me, the sides and corners of the image are as important to image as the center...and I know that the notches will be part of the image. The center can not exist without the corners and will not be as powerful if the corners are not taken into serious consideration.

Wonderful Example Vaughn,