Photo careers in the 21st century?

Andrew O'Neill said:

Well gee, thank you very much, Matt. That really hurt...

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Well as a full Jock to a fellow half Jock I have to say that the picture, allegedly of you in safari khaki with a set of long pointy bellows may simply not have done you justice. I think this was Matt's statement ? that it was you. Beyond matters photographic is he still the unimpeachable source? That is the question

pentaxuser

mshchem said:

Being a photographer isn't enough. People need to be charismatic sellers, entertaining, good looking etc. It's not enough to be a technical and creative wizard, it's a business. Like everything else you start making real money, when you can hire people, who can make you money.

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Do I have a choice between being good looking or a good photographer?

pentaxuser said:

Well as a full Jock to a fellow half Jock I have to say that the picture, allegedly of you in safari khaki with a set of long pointy bellows may simply not have done you justice. I think this was Matt's statement ? that it was you. Beyond matters photographic is he still the unimpeachable source? That is the question

pentaxuser

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He got me from my bad side, sadly.

best way to make money as a photographer is to teach it as someone who charges IDK $2000/person for a 3day weekend.
and selling inexpensive images on etsy ( not necessarily in that order )

I was hoping to sell expensive images on etsy.

juan said:

I was hoping to sell expensive images on etsy.

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That would be the ideal option.

I know that a popular choice is to sell a lot of cheap art to a lot of people, and pretend to be MacDonald's of Art. But MacDonald's hasn't made their money selling burgers in ages - They're a real estate company.

mshchem said:

Being a photographer isn't enough. People need to be charismatic sellers, entertaining, good looking etc. It's not enough to be a technical and creative wizard, it's a business. Like everything else you start making real money, when you can hire people, who can make you money.

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The longer you can defer that moment where you need to hire someone the better.
When you hire someone and is still a relatively small business, you are suddenly a lot more vulnerable.
Of course you can’t just hire and fire people at will.
If you do that will soon be the last person in that field you hire.

juan said:

I was hoping to sell expensive images on etsy.

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yea you can do that too but you won't make a living at it, unless of course you made them with GAF Universal !

Sirius Glass said:

Support a hobby or have a tax write off for the IRS?

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I am not exactly sure what is meant by that but "writing" stuff off on taxes isn't really an option. I have heard something like this frequently over the years and I can tell you, being married to an accountant, that it is largely a misnomer. The short answer is that if you are into photography as a business and you operate like a business (business license, separate bank account, etc.) you can deduct legitimate business expenses against your profits. However, the IRS has specific rules regarding this and it will disallow deducting personal/hobby expenses from one's taxable income. Interestingly, though you cannot deduct hobby expenses you do have to pay taxes on hobby income.

One of my weekly running partners for the past 20+ years is a professional photographer. He owns a dedicated studio on a busy street and does weddings, portraits, school/team photos, etc. He has done quite well but is at retirement age and looking at winding it down. We've discussed this topic quite a bit over the many miles we have covered together and the upshot is that there is still work to be done out there but it has become more competitive. The move to digital has dropped both the cost of entry and reduced the technical expertise previously required. Interestingly, the gender balance, at least in our area has changed, where it was dominated by men there is now many women who have entered the field, many part-timers, mom's who take on work after the kids are in school.

VinceInMT said:

The move to digital has dropped both the cost of entry and reduced the technical expertise previously required. Interestingly, the gender balance, at least in our area has changed, where it was dominated by men there is now many women who have entered the field, many part-timers, mom's who take on work after the kids are in school.

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I have to think the competition from part-timers and the easy/inexpensive tech they use would put downward pressure on earnings for everyone and hurt the established players more. Hard business.

I think it’s a tough go to get into nowadays… But there are a lot of young talented photographers out there who seem to be gaining traction in a world saturated with images. I was a photo assistant in the late 90s and early 2000s in New York and was fortunate to work for some very successful editorial and fashion photographers. Many of them are gone. People who could not change with the times. Budgets have shrunk dramatically, to the point where one scratches their head and wonders if it’s even viable.
Social media is a huge element in today’s successful photographers, and sad as it is to say, the number of followers one has can often determine whether they get the job or not. Of all of the photographers I know who are still successful, they all share the same trait of understanding marketing of themselves and Social media is a huge element in today’s successful photographers, and sad as it is to say, the number of followers one has can often determine whether they get the job or not. Have all of the photographers I know who are still successful, they all share the same trait of understanding marketing of themselves and they all seem to have this wonderful character that people gravitate towards. Confidence. I think that making money solely in photography is very difficult. There are so many amazing Magnum photographers for instance who produce fantastic work, but most of them struggle financially, and I know this from my connection with a few of them. They are driven to produce good work and not focused on the money.

having said all this, I have great respect for anyone who hustles and tries to make it. J

VinceInMT said:

I am not exactly sure what is meant by that but "writing" stuff off on taxes isn't really an option. I have heard something like this frequently over the years and I can tell you, being married to an accountant, that it is largely a misnomer. The short answer is that if you are into photography as a business and you operate like a business (business license, separate bank account, etc.) you can deduct legitimate business expenses against your profits. However, the IRS has specific rules regarding this and it will disallow deducting personal/hobby expenses from one's taxable income. Interestingly, though you cannot deduct hobby expenses you do have to pay taxes on hobby income.

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I agree. To make money with tax write offs, one must loose more money.

How to make a million dollars in photograph: Start a photographic business with two million dollars.

jawarden said:

I have to think the competition from part-timers and the easy/inexpensive tech they use would put downward pressure on earnings for everyone and hurt the established players more. Hard business.

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It is much harder to earn money in photography when every GWC is giving their work away to have a photo on tv or in the newspaper for free.

Sirius Glass said:

It is much harder to earn money in photography when every GWC is giving their work away to have a photo on tv or in the newspaper for free.

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Yes, I think this is the crux of the problem....multiplied by about 1000 digital frames per minute of spray and pray and post on-line.

The way things are going, it seems unlikely there will be many careers outside of art, photojournalism and fashion. Photographs are always going to be a tough sell in a gallery. If we're talking about it as a "business", then I'm not at all interested in something like that, and don't consider that real photography. Weddings, stuff like that, I'd rather not, thank you. No amount of money is enough.

You can't put commercial artists in the same hat as gallery artists, and photography is no different. One group works to make images expressly for themselves and on their own terms, the other group works to express the images for others in exchange for money. Leave all that to the soccer moms w/ DSLRs that someone else mentioned, and yes, those amateurs are hurting commercial photographers.

Besides, if someone is getting into photography these days w/ business ideas, they probably need their head examined.

BradS said:

Is photography a viable career path today?

if so, in what areas of specialization?

It appears that weddings, advertising and glamour are still viable areas for example.

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Cell phone lens and chip design.
Quantum optics (if there is such a thing?)
Aerial photography and surveying via 'drones'
Any genre with high-end clients. People who want the best will still pay for the best.
'Influencer' photographer

Weddings, seniors, etc. are still viable if you can handle the volume and you're up on the 'Shop and sosh mede . Probably also willing to deliver nothing but a flash drive or a link and a release to do whatever they want with them.

jnantz said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/beeple-nft-mike-winkelmann-digital-art-christies-2021-3?op=1

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And NFT's are on the way down already. People must be realizing that they're actually not getting anything and is the absolute worst form of speculation investment right now.

jnantz said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/beeple-nft-mike-winkelmann-digital-art-christies-2021-3?op=1

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That stuff is mind bogglingly whacked.

One thing I do like is when a piece is sold later, 10% goes back to the artist.

In the recent past, good money in photography was made by advertising photographers (agencies and clients would pay double what editiorial fees were) and well-known editorial photographers. Photojournalism, portrait staff and industrial photographers earned mediocre incomes in comparison. Today, wedding photographers who provide comprehensive service such as video, multi-day shoots, elaborate albums can charge quite a lot in contrast to the old days when wedding photographers were pretty much at the bottom of the food chain, along with department store baby and portrait photographers.

momus said:

You can't put commercial artists in the same hat as gallery artists, and photography is no different. One group works to make images expressly for themselves and on their own terms, the other group works to express the images for others in exchange for money.

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Are you saying that gallery artists aren't working "to express the images for others in exchange for money."

VinceInMT said:

Are you saying that gallery artists aren't working "to express the images for others in exchange for money."

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Commercial photographers generally work on assignment for a paying client. Gallery artists are making photographs that they hope will sell to interested parties.

momus said:

Besides, if someone is getting into photography these days w/ business ideas, they probably need their head examined.

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nah
I think it is just that a lot of people these days lack imagination, they are complacent
they don't want to work, they think the jobs are going to come to them .. nothing really works that way ...
its like when I was a teenager, no summer jobs because there
was a recession, so in order to have a summer job, I had to invent one.
a friend's buddy had a red hot business doing mugshots for LinkedIn subscribers
if someone can make photographs better than the average phone user or
parent photographing their kids at the soccer match, might as well flaunt that.
heck look at Giles Clement he parléed his love for wet plate into photographing all sorts of people
and was paid ...

Location, location, location also applies. Would Ansel have been as famous if he lived and photographed in a mountain park that didn't have over 1,000,000 visitors each summer?

MurrayMinchin said:

Location, location, location also applies. Would Ansel have been as famous if he lived and photographed in a mountain park that didn't have over 1,000,000 visitors each summer?

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That was last century and I don't think he was well-known or did well financially for the first half of his career. Today, location has little to do with success or accessibility to locations. It is very much a question of being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people. A bit of talent can be an asset, but it is not a requirement from what I've seen. Social media savvy helps, too.