Peter Lik Set World Record in 2014

[Pieter12]

I'm sure you're a very ethical photographer and I applaud you for that. But let's not confuse art with morals. Gauguin slept with his underage Tahitian models. Who knows what Maplethorpe was doing in between photo shoots. Also, I'm sure purchasers of Beanie Babies and baseball cards thought they were investing as well. Everyone who buys these things thinks it's going to be worth a lot more later. Lik is a lot like many who say that their work could appreciate. Maybe it will. I don't know. Anyone who spends thousands and up is investing or think they're investing or really don;t care. If they have that much to spend they know a thing or two about the dollar and aren't fooled easily. Artists offer a wink and a nod to their customers' illusions. But it's all beside the point. There are people who like Lik's work and spend a lot purchasing it to hang in their million dollar homes because they are impressed the way the photo looks. The Lik gallery salemen did a good job selling. It may not be other's taste. But that's all beside the point.

Have you ever been to a Lik gallery? Did the salespeople try to con you? What did you think of the work and presentation? You did go, didn't you? Or are you judging him based on what others say?

And how many Lik photos do you own?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Alan - Even in old age, my Dad used to listen to slippery sales pitches just out of amusement, causing them to think they were luring him in, then hit them with reality at a certain point, letting them know that, just because he was retired, he wasn't a sucker. He just liked to mess with their heads, and had heard it all before anyway. Guess I inherited that propensity. Of course, I was a professional buyer, so had to know the difference. But just out of curiosity, I've listen to, or listened in on, all kinds of sales pitches, including in both Lik and Kinkade galleries; and they were indeed slippery and misleading when it came to connotations of steadily increasing monetary value. It was the bait on the hook, if someone seemed unsure whether to make a purchase or not.

Now that took some concentration; because when I first walked into one of those galleries out of curiosity, along with my wife, I laughed, and said to her, "This is the worst stuff I've ever seen in my life; someone must be colorblind." I at least deserve some credit for being able to hold a straight face once it became my turn to hear the crocodile smiley BS sales pitch from the Babe in the tight skirt and high heels (my wife looked better anyway).

There are no laws in favor of good taste, or against bad taste. Galleries can do as they please in that respect. But there are laws against deliberately selling something in a deceptive manner that might cause financial harm to consumers. You can't claim a car is new just because it's been repainted and had the odometer fooled with. There are rules.

One can simply walk into an Ikea and get a big mass-produced and framed picturesque image every bit as good as any Lik print for two to three hundred dollars, without any predatory sales agent being involved. But like I already indicated earlier, in those Lik galleries, the sales people are evidently working on commission, and good at it, so will use every tool in their toolbox necessary to close a sale and squeeze the most out of it.

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

Having money has nothing to do with sophistication or taste. Your argument is a dead-end.

There's more to it than that. Alan claimed that the buyers weren't being cheated simply because they were rich enough to afford Lik's work. Is he saying that its ok to cheat those who have money simply because they're rich? One really has to lack a moral compass to think such a thing. Morality is universal. It applies to all. The foundation of morality is the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Every great moral teacher in human history has taught some version of this. No one wants to be lied to, so why defend a liar?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Ty (Beanie Baby company) and Topps (Baseball Card maker) do not tell people they're buying something that will appreciate in value, even though some Beanie Babies and some baseball cards actually do. Lik's salespeople lie to customers. Full stop, end of discussion, mic drop. They explicitly tell people that they're buying something that will increase in value, knowing full well that Lik is openly called a con-artist by art dealers and museum curators and that his work has absolutely ZERO resale value. That's unethical.

As for your silly attempt to make Lik look good by saying others were worse: Gauguin lived in a time and place where what he did was not looked down on the way it is today. Mapplethorpe was openly homosexual at a time when being gay was still widely looked down on, but he didn't hurt anyone. He never lied about who and what he was; the men he had sex with were willing partners, and he never lied to or cheated those who bought his work.

One doesn't need to be personally cheated by Lik to know he's scum. His operation has been exposed in detail by reputable news sources. By your argument, no one should criticize Pol Pot. "How do we know he killed half his county's population? Were you there? The testimony of those who survived the Cambodian "Killing Fields," the journalists who documented it, and the Vietnamese soldiers who put a stop to it can't be believed." See how ignorant you sound?

So now Lik is like Pol Pot. Scheesh! You still didn't answer my question if you actually went to see his work at one of his galleries. They're all over the place. We're talking about his photos and art.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Gaughin's--or Mapplethorpe's--love life had nothing to do with questionable sales tactics, or even about selling his work. Van Gogh did not cut off his ear to get attention or sympathy isn order to sell paintings. Mapplethorpe's biggest patron was already his lover--he gave him a Hasselblad. Up until then Mapplethporpe had been shooting Polaroids. Picasso was a famous womanizer who regularly disposed of his lovers (and his wife) as if they were yesterday's newspaper. None of that sold any work. Pandering to patrons goes back a long way, most artists could not afford to turn down a commission. But even Warhol was tongue-in-cheek about his work and its value. His work was ignored in New York until it was shown in Los Angeles by Ferus Gallery and even then the owner ended up buying all the work. Warhol acknowledged the collaboration with others to produce his silkscreen work and called his studio "The Factory." Lik pretends his oversized postcards are fine art items worthy of displaying and collecting, sure. But I have seen glued-together jigsaw puzzles on the wall of some homes, too.

And I am judging Lik on his own words and work. My guess is he opened his own gallery because no one else would consider selling his work for the prices he demands or with the tactics he uses. I'm surprised he hasn't opened a chain of time-share resorts yet.

How many galleries do you show in?

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

So now Lik is like Pol Pot. Scheesh! You still didn't answer my question if you actually went to see his work at one of his galleries. They're all over the place. We're talking about his photos and art.

No, we're talking about morality. You seem to have no conception of such a thing. I used Pol Pot as an example of a how your silly arguments can be used to defend even the worst of men. I'm sorry that it went over your head.

 

[Pieter12]

How many galleries do you show in?

None on a regular basis. Why should that matter? When my work is shown, it is shown on its merit.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And how many Lik photos do you own?

None I can't afford them. But I have been to two of his galleries and was impressed with his work. I didn't like his sales approach. It's a hard sell because they know they only get one shot to make the sale, then you're gone forever. But I don't recall anyone saying they'll go up in value. I would suggest that any phtographer here who wants to sell their work stop in one of his galleries and see how he operates. The galleries are impeccable. The presentation is professional. Check out his web page. It's a pro job as well. Maybe you can learn something from him. The good stuff.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

None on a regular basis. Why should that matter? When my work is shown, it is shown on its merit.

Lik has a dozen galleries that sells his pictures. He makes millions from their sales. Are you saying his photos have no merit? Only your customers know what merit is.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The envy is suffocating. I'm out of here.

 

[Pieter12]

The envy is suffocating. I'm out of here.

As far as I can tell you are the only one who envies Lik. Enjoy your Lik when you can afford one.

 

[MattKing]

I warned everyone.
Time to close this thread.