Perceptol minimum

[mono]

Does someone here know the minimum amount per film (35 o3 120) of Perceptol especially when diluted 1+3?

I think I somehwere read 200 ml but might be wrong.

Thank you for your help!

 

[noumin]

If I remember right it's 250ml per roll of film (35/120), I use 200ml, it works. Dilution doesn't matter, as that's just the amount of developer you need, from there you add water until you've got your 1+3.

 

[pentaxuser]

If I remember right it's 250ml per roll of film (35/120), I use 200ml, it works. Dilution doesn't matter, as that's just the amount of developer you need, from there you add water until you've got your 1+3.

I seriously doubt that the amount you state is required. John Tinsley in his Rotary Processing Manual used Perceptol at 1+1 successfully and that involves only 70mls of stock solution in a Jobo tank requiring 140mls.

pentaxuser

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Check the Ilford Developer Tech Sheet P7 - http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200621612182416.pdf

Perceptol - 4 Rolls of 135/120 from 1L

Martin

 

[noumin]

Thank you Martin for your help. There´s possibly a safety marging on what Ilford says (and it helps them to sell more
developer ). I tried it once and by error with 200ml 1+1 and two films in a tank ( inversion ), the result was less than exciting, in fact the negs were unusable.

 

[paul_c5x4]

If it is any help, I found I was getting reduced development in the highlights when using less than 50ml per 5x4 sheet. At 60ml per sheet, the negs were coming out about right to my eye.

 

[pentaxuser]

I have had good success with inversion agitation at 1+3 in 240mls and 35mm so it certainly worked for me at 60mls stock which seems to accord with paul c5x4. If amount is related to film square surface then on a straight maths basis it should take two and a half times as much to develop a 36 frame 35mm roll compared to 5x4 inch sheet which is a stock solution of 150mls.

All I can say is that John Tinsley's experience and mine suggest that 60-70mls works fine.

It's expensive enough without using more than is necessary but each person's experience may be different.

pentaxuser

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I've just developed a roll of 35mm Pan F Plus this evening in a Perceptol substitute formula using a 1+3 dilution. So 75ml concentrate + 225ml water. 15 minutes @ 21ºC in a Paterson Super System 4 tank provided fairly dense negatives.

Tom

 

[Ronald Moravec]

You need 120 ml + as much water as it takes to get the dilution you will use.

Best use 240 ml stock for utmost in fine grain or 120 + 360 ml water for 1:3 for sharpness. This means a 16 oz tank for one roll of 35mm. Intermediate dilutions are not enough different to be of value.

You can not use 120 ml alone for one roll as there will not be enough developer to cover the film in an inversion tank. Therefore you need 240 ml or 8 oz stock for a stainless tank if you go for the ultimate fine grain option, more for plastic tanks whick is why I don`t use them. My bottles are multiples of 120 ml or 4 oz. I don`t leave partially full bottles setting around.

 

[pentaxuser]

You need 120 ml + as much water as it takes to get the dilution you will use.

Therefore you need 240 ml or 8 oz stock for a stainless tank if you go for the ultimate fine grain option, more for plastic tanks whick is why I don`t use them. .

Can you say why 120ml is the minimum and why you need more for plastic tanks? In asking the second part of the question I am assuming that you are saying that for the same size tank there is something about plastic that requires more stock Perceptol or is it simply that your plastic tanks are bigger therefor more is required. If it is the latter then I understand and there is no need to reply to the second part of the question. Still curious about why 120 ml minimum though.

Just for info both Durst and Jobo make plastic tanks for 35 mm that only require 240mls

pentaxuser

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[coriana6jp]

I do alot of 120 PanF in Perceptol 1:3. Which in my single reel tank works out to 95mm of stock solution. So far all my negatives have turned out fine. I think its a great combination, no grain, very sharp and the due to the dilution of the developer the contrast is controlled quite well.

Hope it helps.
Gary

 

[eSFotos]

This is interesting.
I always followed Ilford’s recommendation of 4 x 135/36 rolls per 1 litre – meaning 250ml per roll. So I diluted 250ml of stock with 750ml of water for a 135/36 roll – and yes used larger tank!

Question, if I use less than 250ml of stock, do I have to increase the dev time?
According to Tom, there seems no time compensation.

Edward

 

[johnnywalker]

I can't find anywhere on the Ilford Fact Sheet where it says you should only develop 4 rolls of 35mm film per litre of Perceptol stock solution. I develop in a Paterson tank, which says to use 290 ml of developer solution per roll (no matter what the dilution, you need 290 ml of solution). I use 300 ml for easier calculation. If I'm using perceptol at 1+3 that works out to 75ml of stock solution + 225 ml water per roll.

 

[eSFotos]

I can't find anywhere on the Ilford Fact Sheet where it says you should only develop 4 rolls of 35mm film per litre of Perceptol stock solution.

It's in the file listed by Martin earlier - on page 7.
I noticed that this capacity is similar to Microdol-X (16 roll per 1 US Gallon). Obviously because these two are very similar products if not the same.

Check the Ilford Developer Tech Sheet P7 - http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200621612182416.pdf

Perceptol - 4 Rolls of 135/120 from 1L

Martin

 

[2F/2F]

Kodak states a minimum of 6 mL of HC-110 syrup per roll of average density, however, they also state that only four of this is actually used up. Just an example that illustrates that manufacturers recommend minimum capacities that do not run the risk of pooping out in cases of above-average density.

IME, manufacturers' recommended minimums can definitely be halved, and usually quartered, and you will still have perfectly developed negatives (the definition of "perfect" being a good deal subjective, of course).

 

[johnnywalker]

It's in the file listed by Martin earlier - on page 7.
I noticed that this capacity is similar to Microdol-X (16 roll per 1 US Gallon). Obviously because these two are very similar products if not the same.

You're right, I missed that little table. But it doesn't make any sense to me. After the table, they talk about pouring the used solution back into the unused portion before getting developer for the next roll. Why bother if you're only going to get 4 rolls out of a litre anyway?
Barry Thornton (Edge of Darkness) I recall really liked dilute perceptol, but I don't know if he mentioned how much solution per roll he used.

 

[mono]

< Barry Thornton (Edge of Darkness) I recall really liked dilute perceptol, but I don't know if he mentioned how much solution per roll he used. >

I like my Thornton and that´s just my "problem":

I use Jobo 2100 tanks with about 800 ml capacity for 120 MF film. When Perceptol is for 4 films per liter, I have to mix 250 ml Perceptol stock and 550 ml water as for 1+3?

Hmmh, quality has its price, hasn´t it?

Thank you all very much for comments so far!

 

[paul_c5x4]

Question, if I use less than 250ml of stock, do I have to increase the dev time?

Edward - I've used smaller quantities, down to 25ml(stock)/sheet of 5x4. The results were very poor due to developer exhaustion, so I doubt increasing the development time will help in any way.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Edward - I've used smaller quantities, down to 25ml/sheet of 5x4. The results were very poor due to developer exhaustion, so I doubt increasing the development time will help in any way.

25 ml of stock concentrate or 25 ml of 1+3 working solution?

Tom.

 

[paul_c5x4]

25 ml of stock concentrate or 25 ml of 1+3 working solution?

Should have been a little clearer - 25ml of stock solution.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Should have been a little clearer - 25ml of stock solution.

Interesting as I processed that roll of 35mm Pan F Plus with only 75ml stock solution with resulting relatively high contrast negatives.

Tom

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Can you say why 120ml is the minimum and why you need more for plastic tanks? In asking the second part of the question I am assuming that you are saying that for the same size tank there is something about plastic that requires more stock Perceptol or is it simply that your plastic tanks are bigger therefor more is required. If it is the latter then I understand and there is no need to reply to the second part of the question. Still curious about why 120 ml minimum though.

Just for info both Durst and Jobo make plastic tanks for 35 mm that only require 240mls


4 oz is required for 80 sq inches of film. Thats just the way it is.
Plastic tanks require more total solution to cover the film, 240 cc for stainless, 310 CC for Patterson. Therefore to keep the same ratio between water and developer, you need more developer. You don`t need more developer to develope the film, just to cover it.
If you have a plastic tank that will cover the reel with 240 cc, no need to use more.

 

[johnnywalker]

I use Jobo 2100 tanks with about 800 ml capacity for 120 MF film. When Perceptol is for 4 films per liter, I have to mix 250 ml Perceptol stock and 550 ml water as for 1+3?

No, you would have to mix 250 ml Perceptol stock to 750 ml water for 1+3. And this is what it seems Ilford is saying. That's a whole litre of solution for 1 roll of film. I can't help thinking we're missing something here, it just doesn't sound right.

 

[mono]

Sorry, you are right: 250+750 is correct. Just me and mathematics ;o)