Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024

cmacd123 · Oct 4, 2023

Agulliver said:
The lever wind has been justified in part on the feeling of satisfaction one gets from winding on after taking a shot. It's also something that people see and instantly know for sure that you're shooting film. That doesn't mean that they want to make the rest of the functions deliberately difficult to use or to build.

Pentax at one time had one of the Greatest systems for loading film without autoload. I am refering to the Nylon "Needles" on the take up spool on the Pentax MX. Jab the film in anywhere and wind. so manual does not have to be inconvient.

Agulliver · Oct 5, 2023

4season said:
Pure speculation on my part, but just one example of how 2024's film camera need not simply be a rehash of 1994's. Lest we forget, that's a span of 30 years, dating back to the era of VHS video cassettes, when fewer than 1/4 of USA households had a computer.

I would tentatively agree. There's no need to rehash a product from the 90s. And as that would probably be just as difficult as designing and building a new one anyway, because there's no tooling, no supply chain and quite likely no blueprints or CAD files for the 90s cameras. Might as well do their research, decide what features the new cameras need to have and then design from scratch. Which seems to be what they're doing. It is unknown if there are any parts in common with recently made digital compact cameras, but I'd hazard a guess they will if they can.

If a rechargeable battery is part of the design, USB charging would be quite logical. And easy to implement.

Ernst-Jan · Oct 5, 2023

Agulliver said:
If a rechargeable battery is part of the design, USB charging would be quite logical. And easy to implement.

At this moment, yes. Though I would prefer a battery that I can easily take out and replace.
You don't have to charge a film camera that often, so it's not really a problem if this takes once a month or even less, I little bit more cumbersome if this makes the design more future proof.
Maybe there are even USB chargeble AA batteries. Problem solved.

Agulliver · Oct 5, 2023

Rechargeable AA batteries exist, so there's no reason they could not be charged via a USB connector to the charging circuit. It is likely already implemented somewhere. I'm just thinking that taking an existing battery/charger/socket design and assembly from a compact digital camera might be more logical for Pentax/Ricoh. And more economical.

For a film camera with manual wind, the power requirements for the rest even if it's auto focus, auto exposure and has a flash....are quite easily accomplished by two good AA batteries or a typical camera battery from the 90s. Several are still popular because today they're utilised in vape devices.

Hassasin · Oct 5, 2023

Agulliver said:
Rechargeable AA batteries exist, so there's no reason they could not be charged via a USB connector to the charging circuit. It is likely already implemented somewhere. I'm just thinking that taking an existing battery/charger/socket design and assembly from a compact digital camera might be more logical for Pentax/Ricoh. And more economical.

For a film camera with manual wind, the power requirements for the rest even if it's auto focus, auto exposure and has a flash....are quite easily accomplished by two good AA batteries or a typical camera battery from the 90s. Several are still popular because today they're utilised in vape devices.

Fitting reference in a new film camera of the 21st century

Sirius Glass · Oct 5, 2023

Ernst-Jan said:
At this moment, yes. Though I would prefer a battery that I can easily take out and replace.
You don't have to charge a film camera that often, so it's not really a problem if this takes once a month or even less, I little bit more cumbersome if this makes the design more future proof.
Maybe there are even USB chargeble AA batteries. Problem solved.

Until the built in rechargeable battery burn out. Generally in the past, built in batteries do not have the survival life as a product with replaceable AA batteries. So buy your own rechargeable batteries for your camera instead, if that is one of your criteria.

mshchem · Oct 5, 2023

The Leica M11 has a removable Li battery pack. It can be charged on it's freestanding charger or charged in the camera (USB). Pentax will need to shave about $8500 USD, off of the Leica price though

Hassasin · Oct 5, 2023

They ought to go green all in and install a hand cranked dynamo ? Or a small wind turbine over the peeper.

Agulliver · Oct 6, 2023

Every compact digital camera that I have ever used has a removable battery....but unlike DSLRs, the compact cameras have a charging port so one doesn't typically remove the battery to charge it. Anything made in the last 15 years or so has one or other of the USB sockets on the camera for both charging and data transfer. Typically USB-B but I'd hazard a guess anything more modern would use USB-C.

I did find it interesting that when I resurrected my 90s compact 35mm cameras this year for a specific project, and also pressed my Nikon F50 into service for the first time in a while....the cheapest place to get batteries was an online vape shop. The batteries were all available and in stock at Amazon and specialist battery sellers, but it seems the high power camera batteries of the 90s are now popular for powering the larger vape devices and selling in considerable numbers. Probably the only purchase I shall ever make from a vape shop LOL.

4season · Oct 6, 2023

I wouldn't worry too much about what battery Pentax ultimately chooses, because for most of us, I think these cameras are not something that we'll be actively using 6 months hence, let alone years from now.

The new Leica Sofort 2 (aka Fujifilm Instax Evo) has a built-in rechargeable battery. Said battery will easily outlast any fascination that the original buyer has with the thing. The trick is to resell it, (with added collector's premium!), while the battery still has a decent amount of life remaining.

armadsen · Oct 6, 2023

I use my Sofort 1 decently often. I have it around my neck today, in fact. It’s 6 or 7 years old, I think.

Pioneer · Oct 6, 2023

4season said:
I wouldn't worry too much about what battery Pentax ultimately chooses, because for most of us, I think these cameras are not something that we'll be actively using 6 months hence, let alone years from now.

The new Leica Sofort 2 (aka Fujifilm Instax Evo) has a built-in rechargeable battery. Said battery will easily outlast any fascination that the original buyer has with the thing. The trick is to resell it, (with added collector's premium!), while the battery still has a decent amount of life remaining.

I don't know. I used my little Olympus right up until my grand daughter found it more interesting than I did. She still uses it, had film in it the other day when she came by the house. If this little Pentax is halfway decent I suspect I'll have to buy more than one just to keep one in the house.

cmacd123 · Oct 6, 2023

if the new camera has no motor, a lithium coin battry like a cr 2032 will likely run the meter and the autofocus for many weeks. the Olyimpus stylus zoom would go for a year including the motor on one CR 123A.

logan2z · Oct 6, 2023

armadsen said:
I use my Sofort 1 decently often. I have it around my neck today, in fact. It’s 6 or 7 years old, I think.

I bought one (the red 'Special Edition) for my wife because she said she wanted it - and she's never used it in the 3+ years she's had it. I think I'm going to start using it.

armadsen · Oct 7, 2023

logan2z said:
I bought one (the red 'Soecial Edition) for my wife because she said she wanted it - and she's never used it in the 3+ years she's had it. I think I'm going to start using it.

My wife bought mine for me so I could own a Leica, which she knew I’d always wanted. I’m not sure I’d have bought it myself, as I’d have just gone for the equivalent Fuji (she knows/knew nothing about that sort of thing). But I’ve gotten plenty of use out of it and get “nice camera” comments when I take it out and about.

Agulliver · Oct 7, 2023

Any camera that performs decently well for a style of photography that the owner enjoys will get used time and time again, over a period of many years.

My compact film cameras (2x Olympus Mju and Konica Z-up140 Super) don't get used as often as my more vintage manual cameras or my SLRs....but they've been in occasional use for many years.

I don't think Pentax/Ricoh are looking at manufacturing a toy that the owner gets bored with after 6 months.

Though once again. This. Camera. Is. Not. Aimed. At. Us.

Pioneer · Oct 7, 2023

cmacd123 said:
Pentax at one time had one of the Greatest systems for loading film without autoload. I am refering to the Nylon "Needles" on the take up spool on the Pentax MX. Jab the film in anywhere and wind. so manual does not have to be inconvient.

Called "Magic Fingers." My LX has it as well and you are absolutely right. It is probably the best film loading system that was made by anyone and I've used a lot of cameras.

BMbikerider · Oct 7, 2023

I may take more notice if they were to bring out a serious SLR or even a camera with interchangeable lenses and a rangefinder.
It doesn't have to be all singing and dancing, just a good high quality instrument containing a decent level of metal parts, because sooner or later the supply of good system cameras will dry up.

Until then I will stay with what I have.

4season · Oct 7, 2023

Agulliver said:
I don't think Pentax/Ricoh are looking at manufacturing a toy that the owner gets bored with after 6 months.

No, I don't think so either, but most of us grew up steeped in consumerist values, to the extent that it seems like the logical order of things, rather than a human invention.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210120-how-the-world-became-consumerist

When it's built-in battery finally wears out, I expect that the Leica Sofort 2 will be pretty easy to re-cell via generic part sourced from China for a few bucks, but few of the original buyers will care, because by then it will be several generations removed from the owner's current love, much like iPods and other mobile devices of the not-so-distant past.

Having said that, I'm interested in this new Pentax camera too! But ugh, to think that until a few years ago, the neighborhood shop would occasionally get batches of boxed, last-gen compact cameras and sell 'em @ $30/ea, and that I ended up simply giving one of them (a Kyocera) to the thrift store without running a single roll of film through it.

Agulliver · Oct 8, 2023

Are you aware that it's entirely possible to have a replaceable battery, charged by USB? Every single compact digital camera I've ever handled either took a non-rechargeable battery (replaceable) or a removable rechargeable battery. My current digital compact is a low level Praktica Z212, several years old....a full charge still gives something like 300-400 photos before it needs a recharge. Which is pretty much what id did when I bought it new. And, should it fail, a new battery is still available.

I am not familiar with recent Pentax or Ricoh compact digital cameras, do they use batteries that cannot be removed by the simple means of flipping a catch on the case?

ant! · Oct 11, 2023

Agulliver said:
Are you aware that it's entirely possible to have a replaceable battery, charged by USB?

I even switched for my Minolta 7 to microUSB rechargeable CR123A equivalents (EBL 16J). Still have to try them out though, but comments seem good.

Oldwino · Oct 11, 2023

I run my Nikon F4 on rechargeable lithium AA batteries. No issues.

aranzebia · Oct 17, 2023

A new rumor came from Korea, but I'm unsure of the source.
The product will be announced in February of 2024, and will be available for purchase in Korea in March or April.
It's expected to cost less than 1 million won, and the lens angles will be 28mm and 43mm.

1,000,000 won = Approx. $740

Henning Serger · Oct 17, 2023

aranzebia said:
A new rumor came from Korea, but I'm unsure of the source.
The product will be announced in February of 2024, and will be available for purchase in Korea in March or April.
It's expected to cost less than 1 million won, and the lens angles will be 28mm and 43mm.

1,000,000 won = Approx. $740

Thank you very much for the info. Of course concerning rumours we always have to be very careful.
But this looks at least quite reasonable / likely.
The difference in focal length makes much sense: One with a normal focal length, the other with a wide angle significantly wider, with a really visible difference.
And the 28mm focal length make much sense for also another reason: Ricoh has a lot of market experience with it: Their former Ricoh GR film compact camera with the 28mm lens was a great success on the market. And a 28mm lens can still be designed compact enough for a compact camera.

If this rumour proves to be true, then I have been right with my assessment in my original post:
"My assumption:
The cameras will be "twins": Same body, but with different lenses, e.g. one with a normal focal length, the other one with a wide angle lens."

We will see........the excitement / suspense is increasing .

I am also very curious whether in the case that there will be one version with a 43mm lens, if then this lens will have a similar design approach as the current, by Pentaxians very much loved 1.9/43 Limited lens.

Best regards,
Henning

Agulliver · Oct 17, 2023

That rumour seems realistic in terms of the products and the price bracket. Too expensive for me but it's not aimed at me. Theoretically I could buy one but I cannot justify it when I have 40+ working film cameras including compacts with similar focal length lenses. But this is aimed at someone who doesn't already own a bunch of cameras, who wants something new and reliable as well as practical.

If the price is correct that's about £600 which is probably realistic in today's market. I really hope I get to see one in the flesh. I hope it's a success, by whatever measure Pentax judges success. It's not going to be in the Argos catalogue nor on every teengaer's christmas list....but if it makes back the development costs in a few years and is liked by reviewers and users alike....it's a success.

Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024

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