Pentax: Two new compact film cameras planned - Pentax 17 announced June 2024

[MattKing]

A detailed review from Hamish Gill at 35mmc: https://www.35mmc.com/17/06/2024/pentax-17-review/

Who I would suggest is much more attuned to the target market than many of us here.

 

[armadsen]

I voted with my hard earned cash, and pre-ordered one from B&H. I would like to support Pentax and their commitment to film photography.

Same! I put an order in with Brooklyn Film Camera as soon as I got the email from them that it was up on their site. I just want to put my money where my mouth is, and hope they are able to do the premium compact and SLRs that they’ve talked about wanting to do.

 

[xkaes]

Looks like I'll be sticking to my smaller, lighter, full-frame, Minolta Hi-Matic G2 (they also made a GF, with a built-in flash).

(1982) This is an updated version of the Hi-matic G. It has the same 38mm zone-focusing lens with f-stops from f2.8 to f22 with four-elements in three groups. Close focusing to 3.3 feet. The lens has four focusing icons -- with click-stops for easy operation -- but also has distances markings for feet and meters. The lens has a 46mm filter thread and a behind the filter CDS meter. The change from the Hi-matic G is that the body of the G2 is even smaller and lighter -- and it only came in black. The CDS meter has an EV range from 9 - 17 and controls the exposure with a programmed auto-exposure system setting the aperture and shutter speed from 1/60 at f2.8 to 1/250 at f22. Film speeds of 25-400. X synch at all speeds. Takes a 675 battery. It's the smallest full-frame, manual focus camera made by Minolta, but still a quality shooter. The camera is very small -- just a little bigger than the Repo half-frame models -- and very light (just 10 ounces), but without a cheap feel to it. With a tiny Vivitar 50 hot-shoe flash (a perfect fit), the G2 makes a very tiny package. However, the G2 is missing a couple of things that would be nice. It has a tripod socket, but it lacks a B setting and a cable release connection. So no long exposures with this guy. In addition, it also lacks a battery ON/OFF switch, so a lens cap or camera case is important for battery longevity. Unfortunately, it uses a 1.35 volt 675 battery, but appears to be relatively accurate with a 1.5 volt 675 battery. One nice thing about the camera is that it operates fine without the battery. Normally the meter sets the shutter speed (from 1/60 to 1/250) and f-stop (from f2.8 to f22) in a programmed auto-exposure mode, but without the battery, the shutter defaults to 1/60. The f-stop can be set from f2.8 to f11 by adjusting the GN dial. That's a nice touch because you can always take pictures. The GN lens is not like the GN lenses I have seen. With the G2 the aperture is set -- and fixed -- when you dial in the GN of the flash -- and is intended to expose a subject at 10 feet away. The exposure will be OK from about 7 feet to 17 feet, but the f-stop does not vary as the lens is focused -- like all of the GN lenses I have seen. The G2 GN approach works, and allows you to set the f-stop manually, but it has its limitations. The G2 uses a trap-needle system. That allows you to meter one part of the scene, press the shutter release partially (which traps the needle), and then expose a different scene. It operates like the AE lock on SLR cameras, but is not mentioned in the owner's manual. So even though the camera lacks manual exposure settings, you can control the exposure fairly easily. First, you can use the trap needle method. Second, you can also take the camera off of AUTO and use the GN numbers (without a flash). This fixes the shutter speed to 1/60, and by changing the GN numbers, you can select the f-stops from f2.8 to f11. Not bad for a "cheap" camera. I look at it like a baby brother to the 7SII. Sure, it lacks the f1.7 lens and the rangefinder focusing, but it has most of the other features -- in a tiny, lightweight, all black package.

 

[logan2z]

 

[bfilm]

Video (2024-06-17):
PENTAX Film Project Story #04 Announcing the new film camera, PENTAX 17

You can certainly feel the passion Takeo Suzuki has for the film camera project.

 

[mshchem]

Video (2024-06-17):
PENTAX Film Project Story #04 Announcing the new film camera, PENTAX 17

You can certainly feel the passion Takeo Suzuki has for the film camera project.

I enjoyed watching this. Definitely a Design guy! My first serious camera was a SP 500.

 

[bfilm]

The overall look of the camera has grown on me a little bit. The announcement video explains that the camera is made with magnesium alloy and engineering plastics and manufactured in Vietnam, which is where they make the Pentax lenses nowadays, including the Limited series lenses. Supposedly, they have experience and skill at that factory that is useful for some of the more unique aspects of film camera manufacture.

I am still not a fan of the choice of half-frame format. But I do think the hand-wound film-advance mechanism and manual zone-focus are good choices.

The LED indicator lights right next to the viewfinder seem like a really bad idea. It seems like these will be very disturbing and harmful to the eyes and would be much better placed on some more out-of-way area of the camera.

There hasn't been any mention about the type of flash. I would have skipped the flash, but since they included it, I am hoping it is a traditional-type flash and not LED, as LED has horrible light quality.

We will see if they can accomplish what they want with this camera and continue to additional models. I am still hoping they will eventually make a nice 35mm film SLR.

 

[ant!]

Here another review: https://casualphotophile.com/2024/06/17/pentax-17-new-film-camera-review/

Sounds interesting, even though it's likely not what I'd buy (ok, never say never). The food icon on the distance scale is funny... But I like the that they included the distance markers in the viewfinder!

 

[bfilm]

But I like the that they included the distance markers in the viewfinder!

Yes, and that they did it in a purely analog optical way makes it nice.

 

[xkaes]

Sounds pricey. Plus, if someone wants to delve into "classic" camera photography, do they want a camera that won't work without a battery?

 

[Brendan Quirk]

Every photographer learned the basic concepts of photography at some point, and despite it being the "digital age", I think the people who develop a genuine interest in film still want to learn and use cameras this way.

You know, the occasional time I use automatic exposure, I tend to struggle with it. The limits of auto are often reached, and I have to revert to manual. Manual for me is easier!

Of course, this is with old film cameras; I know modern digital is more versatile. Especially since it has auto ISO. This is not pertinent, however, to new users of film.

My main point is really that manual is NOT difficult, and I think a little effort on the part of a motivated new photographer will prove rewarding. I suspect it shouldn't be an obstacle!

 

[xkaes]

As I suspected, the only "manual" control is +/- 2 EV. There MIGHT be some sort of exposure lock by pressing the shutter release part-way down. I didn't notice if that is included, but it would be a shame to leave it out. Otherwise it's just a glorified Kodak H35.

 

[bfilm]

You know, the occasional time I use automatic exposure, I tend to struggle with it. The limits of auto are often reached, and I have to revert to manual. Manual for me is easier!

Of course, this is with old film cameras; I know modern digital is more versatile. Especially since it has auto ISO. This is not pertinent, however, to new users of film.

My main point is really that manual is NOT difficult, and I think a little effort on the part of a motivated new photographer will prove rewarding. I suspect it shouldn't be an obstacle!

I agree. This is why Pentax (and others) should make classic archetypal film cameras. I don't think they need to concern themselves so much with gimmicks and trends and features. Just make cameras of the type that have had perennial appeal across decades. This is, I think, especially important when so few new film cameras are available today -- when more camera models are available would be the time to add some variation, if desired.

I feel like in many ways the classic cameras are more appealing to people today than they ever have been. There are surely still photographers that appreciate the beauty of film and want to use it to make pictures of wildlife and sports and find auto-focus, motorized film advance, and perhaps some form of auto-exposure like aperture priority mode to be preferable (wonderful wildlife and sports pictures were made in the era that only mechanical manual cameras and lenses existed, but the electronic features do make things easier). But for the most part, the people choosing to use film today can work at a slower pace and find the characteristics of the manual cameras to be a great part of the appeal and enjoyment of photography.

 

[bfilm]

Sounds pricey. Plus, if someone wants to delve into "classic" camera photography, do they want a camera that won't work without a battery?

It would really be cool to have a fully mechanical manual camera made again (in addition to the excellent Leica rangefinder cameras). But I suspect that a mechanical shutter will be the biggest difficulty faced by Pentax in their film camera project, if they decide to pursue this.

It would take some unique knowledge and skills to accomplish in-house manufacture of mechanical shutters at Pentax. I think the more likely route would be to try and convince Seiko or Copal to manufacture mechanical shutters again, but it might not be easy to convince them.

 

[xkaes]

They don't have to use a mechanical shutter to offer some sort of exposure control. That could be accomplished with control of the aperture or shutter speed with an electronic shutter. That's 75 year old technology. They opted for solely the programmed exposure mode.

 

[bfilm]

They don't have to use a mechanical shutter to offer some sort of exposure control. That could be accomplished with control of the aperture or shutter speed with an electronic shutter. That's 75 year old technology. They opted for solely the programmed exposure mode

Right, I was referring to your comment about being able to use the camera without a battery.

 

[mshchem]

This is the first "module variant" if this makes money expect all sorts of variations. First products are always expensive, trying to recoup some of the tooling costs on lunatics like me.

That same module platform could easily accommodate a full frame lens and viewfinder (38mm-ish).

Mr Coffee takes the same basic parts and makes 2 dozen different price points and features.

I don't think that this camera has any kind of exposure counter, but I bet it won't need it to sell the first 20,000.

 

[bfilm]

I don't think that this camera has any kind of exposure counter, but I bet it won't need it to sell the first 20,000.

I think it does. The wheel in window type. Just to the right of the film advance lever.

On another note, the official product page is published.

 

[Dwight Anderson]

A good review from people at the Film Photography Store and The Darkroom



An interesting conversation about using zone focus for street photography and the quality of the exposures and images.

The good reviews on 35mmc, the Casual Photophile, and this video will go a long way towards making it a success.

 

[mshchem]

I think it does. The wheel in window type. Just to the right of the film advance lever.

On another note, the official product page is published.

That's a relief. Goodness 72 exposures that's mind boggling. That's a commitment

 

[Subversive Mk II]

Someone on Reddit estimated the size based on the 40.5mm filter, it's a small camera. 116x70, a bit smaller than my Ikonta 35. A handgrip on a camera that size isn't a bad idea.

View attachment 371884

At least it's not one of the shapeless blobs Pentax produced during the 90s, in the P&S market. Not exactly hideous, but totally unappealing, to me anyway.

 

[bfilm]

That's a relief. Goodness 72 exposures that's mind boggling. That's a commitment

Yes, it is hard to picture when one would want that many pictures with a camera of this type. I suppose it might be useful for someone to take on holiday and just need one or two rolls of film the whole time.

Otherwise, it seems the supposed cost-savings of the half-frame format would just be negated, because one might just take a lot more pictures than needed so that the roll can be finished and go for processing.

 

[bfilm]

Hopefully, Pentax get really motivated in this film camera project and we get to a classic 35mm film SLR soon. As mentioned above, I think it will potentially be difficult for them to make a fully mechanical manual SLR -- but it would be a neat accomplishment.

But I think it would be fairly easy for Pentax to make a manual-focus electronic-shutter 35mm film SLR like the Pentax LX or Nikon F3. This is a popular camera type, with the Nikon F3 being the longest-running Nikon SLR. I think there is great potential for a film SLR like this to be a very successful camera for Pentax.

Of course, this would also require that Pentax begin making mechanical manual focus lenses again. Even just a collection of 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm would probably suffice nowadays. Or perhaps the quirky focal lengths of 31mm, 43mm, and 77mm to match their current selection of auto-focus FA Limited lenses. This would have the added advantage, from Pentax's point of view, of these potential new mechanical manual focus lenses also working perfectly well on the Pentax digital SLR cameras.

 

[Dwight Anderson]

Bracket your exposures and focus, turn 72 into 12.

On a serious note, it has a bokeh mode, which prioritizes wide apertures and night mode which prioritizes longer exposures (think small apertures) plus exposure compensation. Not exactly manual mode, but quite a bit of flexibility.

Also, it is large enough to put a full frame in and it focuses with a motor, just think where that might lead.

 

[cmacd123]

it focuses with a motor, just think where that might lead.

looking cosely at the web site, If you select full auto, it runs the lens at a hyperfocal distance. BUT if you select P you can zone focus. Instant good results for the first time user, and more control as the user gets used to it. (I am guessing the lens mechanism was based on an Auto Focus DI GI T AL Camera.)