Pentax LX - a twist on the mirror stuck issue?

[Huss]

I just got my LX serviced/CLA'd by that tech that everyone recommends for Pentax.
Now the mirror stays up about every 3rd shot. Without the shutter opening. Doesn't matter if it has batteries in it or not. Doesn't matter if there is film in it or not. Doesn't matter if the lens is on it, or even if the finder is on it!
Doesn't matter where the shutter speed dial is.

The only way I can release it - which then fires the shutter! - is to push in the button on the self timer and act like I am trying to lock up the mirror using the self timer lever process.

Of course I'm sending it back to the tech, but does anyone have any thoughts apart from what an overrated pile of junk the LX is?...(It seems really nice, I want it to work)

 

[Aviv]

It's really interesting that you bring this up because I had a similar issue recently. I sent an LX body to Eric, and when I got it back there were two issues. First, the meter seemed to get "stuck" occasionally, and only after some messing around with it (changing from manual to auto, cycling through apertures, triggering the depth of field preview) could I get it to function normally for a short period of time. I asked Eric about this, and he said to put some film in the camera. After that, the meter worked like a charm. I guess the LX's metering system requires film for it to operate properly. First issue solved.

I still occasionally have a second issue, which is the one you mentioned. While it is happening more often for you, it happens probably for every 1 in 100 shots for me. I press the shutter, and it looks like the mirror is experiencing the dreaded sticky mirror issue. I trigger the depth of field preview, and the photo is taken.

While I do lose a frame every now and then, I'm not sure yet if it's worth it for me to send back to Eric. I've kind of accepted it to be a quirk of using a camera like this, but given the frequency of your issue, I'd say it is definitely worth sending back. This camera is a joy to use - it feels perfect in my hands. And I think you'd like to have the same experience I and others have had using this camera!

 

[Chan Tran]

The tech may have replaced the foam surrounding the focusing screen and used foam that is too thick. The mirror doesn't go up all the way. Next time if it does that remove the lens and push the mirror up gently.

 

[Pioneer]

Obviously, send it back. Eric has serviced 3 of my LX cameras over the years and they all work wonderfully. I did have to send one back but at the moment I can't remember exactly what the problem was.

Without excusing the issue I do think that the LX is quite a bit more complex and difficult to service than many of Pentax's other cameras, maybe most. Additionally I'm not certain that Eric is as comfortable with electronic issues as I have had him turn down a service job on my PZ1p and MZ-S which I had done by other service technicians. I also know that he has been training in another technician to help take some of the service load so that may also have a bit to do with it.

Anyway, I hope it all works out for you as the LX is anything but junk.

 

[Huss]

The tech may have replaced the foam surrounding the focusing screen and used foam that is too thick. The mirror doesn't go up all the way. Next time if it does that remove the lens and push the mirror up gently.

That is exactly it! I see when it is stuck it does not go up all the way. When I do as you suggest, it instantly fires.
Thank you for that.

 

[Huss]

edit: that is why the shutter fires when I use the mirror lock up - it fully raises the mirror allowing it to complete it's stroke. Thanks Chan!

 

[Les Sarile]

Of course I'm sending it back to the tech, but does anyone have any thoughts apart from what an overrated pile of junk the LX is?...(It seems really nice, I want it to work)

Any camera not in good working condition, can be a pile of junk. Hopefully you'll get it sorted out and then be able to judge if it is overrated or not.
I have two perfectly working copies myself and don't think it's overrated, specially when you compare it to it's peers . . .

 

[Huss]

Any camera not in good working condition, can be a pile of junk. Hopefully you'll get it sorted out and then be able to judge if it is overrated or not.
I have two perfectly working copies myself and don't think it's overrated, specially when you compare it to it's peers . . .

I said that tongue in cheek, which is why I also made the other comment in parentheses!

But I do have to say I have seen so many LXs with issues, that I felt I was taking a gamble here. I hope i pays off! It does fit very nicely in hand, and the winding action is much nicer than the mysteriously vaunted one of the Nikon F3.
My F3s (and F, F2, F4, F6) feel bullet proof in comparison to the LX though.

 

[Huss]

The shop wrote me and said they could not replicate the issue. I sent them a photo of the camera with the mirror locked up (but not fully up).
The camera was sent in initially because it would not focus to infinity. They did fix that, but it seems that their fix may have caused this issue, as it did not have it before.

I'm hoping they take another look and can figure out what changed.

 

[nicholasnicholas]

Some time later, but did you solve this?

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I think this the famous 'Sticky Mirror Syndrome' so typical for the LX.
I had 3 of these cameras and all of them got that illness, and needed repair...

 

[nicholasnicholas]

I think this the famous 'Sticky Mirror Syndrome' so typical for the LX.
I had 3 of these cameras and all of them got that illness, and needed repair...

Its a shame. Did you repair them?
Mine isn't sticky as such, but the mirror lags a lot to return on the slower speeds and the shutter curtain stays open. Puzzling!

 

[Philippe-Georges]

Its a shame. Did you repair them?
Mine isn't sticky as such, but the mirror lags a lot to return on the slower speeds and the shutter curtain stays open. Puzzling!

Yes, it's a pity, but I think that at the time Pentax didn't realise that the foam they used all around in the mirror box was going to degrade.
The whole trouble with the mirror and the shutter comes down to the foam that became so sticky and even fell apart and might have got into the mirror and shutter system.
I advise you not to fire the camera till it is repaired, as you might force things to move which are stuck and aggravate the whole issue!

I didn't repair it my self as I didn't how and hadn't the tools nor the parts, the cameras went to the Pentax service, and it was rather costly but very wel done, I think they used a different foam kit which didn't degrade and in one camera they had to change the shutter curtain too.
Since then, that Pentax kit served me very well for a long time, worth the money!

 

[Renato Tonelli]

I haven't used my LX in a while, so after reading this, I immediately exercised it and, fortunately, no sticky mirror.

But, who is this Eric? Can someone post his contact info or PM me? I might need his services one day.

Thank you.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I haven't used my LX in a while, so after reading this, I immediately exercised it and, fortunately, no sticky mirror.

But, who is this Eric? Can someone post his contact info or PM me? I might need his services one day.

Thank you.

Sadly, I believe Eric Hendrickson no longer works on Pentax LX model cameras. According to his <website>
---
Units I Will Repair
6x7s, 67s (MLU units only)
K Series (K1000, KX, KM)
M Series (MX, ME, ME Super)
Spotmatics
Lenses (No zoom lenses)
No Digital Cameras
No International Work Accepted
---

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I think that in Japan, there is somebody who's still working on the LX, call Japan Camera Hunter, he might help you.

Anyway, it's worth it as the LX has the word's best metering system. It first evaluates the light condition by the light reflected from the pattern on the first shutter's curtain. Then, it continues measuring and calculating during the exposure as it measures the light reflected from the film's surface, and when the conditions change it changes the exposure.
By this, it goes a step further than the Olympus cameras.

I used these cameras in the rather difficult conditions, like whine cellars in the Bourgogne and Italy, where I just left the LX on a tripod (with a 20mm) to do its job, and went on photographing elsewhere with an other LX (I had 3), I think that the exposure must have lasted much longer than half an hour, and strangely enough the Fujichrome Tungsten came out perfectly exposed...

 

[tih]

I think this the famous 'Sticky Mirror Syndrome' so typical for the LX.
I had 3 of these cameras and all of them got that illness, and needed repair...

No, the LX "sticky mirror" is when the bumper the mirror rests on when down starts to deteriorate and get soft, and the mirror sticks to it, so it doesn't flip up (or only flips up after a short delay) when you press the shutter release button.

 

[DTC]

Quote: "the LX has the word's best metering system. It first evaluates the light condition by the light reflected from the pattern on the first shutter's curtain. Then, it continues measuring and calculating during the exposure as it measures the light reflected from the film's surface, and when the conditions change it changes the exposure.
By this, it goes a step further than the Olympus cameras."

Correction: This is exactly how the OM-2, OM-2n, OM-2SP, OM-4, and OM-4Ti cameras meter on regular Auto (aperture priority) mode. They, like the Pentax LX, are capable of adjusting the exposure during the exposure. Pentax just basically copied the Olympus metering system from the OM-2 and OM-2n cameras, except used a secondary mirror system like the OM-2SP, OM-4 and OM-4Ti cameras. However, unlike the LX, the Olympus cameras don't suffer from any sticky mirror problems that obstruct operation. Other than deteriorating prism foam (which is unsightly, but doesn't function actual operation) in the OM-1 and OM-2 series of cameras, the single digit OM cameras that I have (13 of them), continue to function without any real problems (I had the prism foam timely removed).

When the LX came out, I was sorely tempted -- as a poor high school student -- to sell a kidney and replace my OM-2n camera with the LX to take advantage of the 1/2000 shutter speed and interchangeable finders. After reading about the LX's sticky mirror problems, boy am I glad that I didn't!!!

 

[GregY]

Quote: "the LX has the word's best metering system. It first evaluates the light condition by the light reflected from the pattern on the first shutter's curtain. Then, it continues measuring and calculating during the exposure as it measures the light reflected from the film's surface, and when the conditions change it changes the exposure.
By this, it goes a step further than the Olympus cameras."

Correction: This is exactly how the OM-2, OM-2n, OM-2SP, OM-4, and OM-4Ti cameras meter on regular Auto (aperture priority) mode. They, like the Pentax LX, are capable of adjusting the exposure during the exposure. Pentax just basically copied the Olympus metering system from the OM-2 and OM-2n cameras, except used a secondary mirror system like the OM-2SP, OM-4 and OM-4Ti cameras. However, unlike the LX, the Olympus cameras don't suffer from any sticky mirror problems that obstruct operation. Other than deteriorating prism foam (which is unsightly, but doesn't function actual operation) in the OM-1 and OM-2 series of cameras, the single digit OM cameras that I have (13 of them), continue to function without any real problems (I had the prism foam timely removed).

When the LX came out, I was sorely tempted -- as a poor high school student -- to sell a kidney and replace my OM-2n camera with the LX to take advantage of the 1/2000 shutter speed and interchangeable finders. After reading about the LX's sticky mirror problems, boy am I glad that I didn't!!!

The Pentax LX had a good run (20yrs) and i'm sure some are still working out there. I didn't use it for long, but I did use one on a trip to Nepal (in 1986)....along with a 24mm and an 80-200 and my ubiquitous Leica M. I've still got the TMax100 negs and Kodachromes. It worked like a charm....flawlessly.

 

[Les Sarile]

Quote: "the LX has the word's best metering system. It first evaluates the light condition by the light reflected from the pattern on the first shutter's curtain. Then, it continues measuring and calculating during the exposure as it measures the light reflected from the film's surface, and when the conditions change it changes the exposure.
By this, it goes a step further than the Olympus cameras."

Correction: This is exactly how the OM-2, OM-2n, OM-2SP, OM-4, and OM-4Ti cameras meter on regular Auto (aperture priority) mode. They, like the Pentax LX, are capable of adjusting the exposure during the exposure. Pentax just basically copied the Olympus metering system from the OM-2 and OM-2n cameras, except used a secondary mirror system like the OM-2SP, OM-4 and OM-4Ti cameras. However, unlike the LX, the Olympus cameras don't suffer from any sticky mirror problems that obstruct operation. Other than deteriorating prism foam (which is unsightly, but doesn't function actual operation) in the OM-1 and OM-2 series of cameras, the single digit OM cameras that I have (13 of them), continue to function without any real problems (I had the prism foam timely removed).

When the LX came out, I was sorely tempted -- as a poor high school student -- to sell a kidney and replace my OM-2n camera with the LX to take advantage of the 1/2000 shutter speed and interchangeable finders. After reading about the LX's sticky mirror problems, boy am I glad that I didn't!!!

More corrections:
The OM-2 has two sets of metering cels - a pair of CDS cels in the viewfinder for use in manual mode as well as initial metering in A mode and a SPD cel in the mirror box when in aperture priority. The LX only has the metering cel in the mirror box. The OM-3 & OM-4 also did away with the cels in the viewfinder in favor of one in the mirror box.

As you stated, the OM-2, OM-4 and the LX aperture mode act very similarly in that they continuously evaluate the scene for changes in light and adjust exposure accordingly. Where they differ is the that plain OM-2 can achieve up to 19 minutes of autoexposure time but only if you are using ASA 12 film. You can read more about this at http://www.zuiko.com/web_5__20150924_032.htm. OTOH, the LX has no such film speed limitations. I've tested both of my LX's in aperture priority autoexposures lasting many hours in controlled as well as real world settings.

Here's the results of using Fuji 100 from seconds to 2+ hours . . .

Fuji 100 long exposure by Les DMess, on Flickr


This about 15 minutes on Kodak Portra 800 . . .

Kodak Portra 800-06_22B by Les DMess, on Flickr


This one about 45 minutes on Kodak Ektar 100 . . .

Kodak Ektar 100_31-12 by Les DMess, on Flickr


BTW, I have two perfectly working LX's that I've been using now for over 10 years with not one issue. One off auction listed as for parts only not working from a relative. Put batteries in and it's been working since.

LXs & Finders by Les DMess, on Flickr


It's also commonly reported that OM's have battery drain issues but all of my OM's work perfectly fine.

OM1234 by Les DMess, on Flickr


BTW, that's great that you acquired your OM and have made good use of it! I am not so sure that Pentax would have made the LX if Yoshihisa Maitani had not given us the OM-1 & OM-2 . . .

 

[Philippe-Georges]

No, the LX "sticky mirror" is when the bumper the mirror rests on when down starts to deteriorate and get soft, and the mirror sticks to it, so it doesn't flip up (or only flips up after a short delay) when you press the shutter release button.

You might be right, but I was simply quoting what the Pentax Belgium repair technician wrote on the invoice
Actually, on the invoice the replacing of all foam parts and the cleaning (and one time replacing-) of the shutter curtains and system where mentioned, and to be payed for around € 260.- some 20 years ago as I recall.
I had 3 LX's at the time, they all suffered, and I had to have them all repaired as I used these professionally, so 3 x +/- €260.-...