Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

[Huss]

Problem with PnS cameras today is that you buy them and they work for a day, and then break. That just too bad. No one can or will work on them.
Even a used camera store has limited warranty.

I have bought lots of them for next to nothing in the last couple of years and they all still work. Which is weird as I thought they would break after a day.

I highly recommend the Fuji Work Project - especially the one with the panorama mode.

 

[Roger Cole]

Had 645. Pretty sour spot. Sold off. Not any bigger than 6x6, which affords much more flexibility. Actually, the sweet spot would be 6x8. My preferred 4:3 format without cropping and, in reverse-curl backs, permits a spacing configuration that eliminates unflat bulges toward the lens.

Interesting take. I have 645, 6x6, and 6x7 cameras but if I could keep only one of those formats it would be 645. Reason: the 67 is too large for practical hand held walking around use (RZ67 Pro II in my case but true of pretty much all 6x7 SLRs - the rangefinders are workable) and with my 6x6 TLRs I end up cropping to roughly 6x4.5 more often than not - not always but probably 60-70% of the time - anyway.

Just goes to show how much the MVs in YMMV.

 

[Mike Lopez]

After the prototype, the first thousand serial numbers of any mechanical innovation are where most of the defects show up. An on an item of finite demand, like in this case, just a few lemons spoiling the reputation could end the project in its tracks forever. They have to get it right the first time, and that won't be cheap. One single subcontractor of a certain component flubs up, and it will be a financial trainwreck that nobody else will want to gamble with. I sure wish em luck, however.

...But at least those aren't stuck in "square" mode, with a defective shutter curtain that doesn't open fully wide. Sirius needs to buy himself a film stretcher to get it right.

Ah yes, the old "Hasselblad film clamp" non-solution.

I found myself nodding in agreement with everything in your first paragraph especially.

 

[rcphoto]

Problem with PnS cameras today is that you buy them and they work for a day, and then break. That just too bad. No one can or will work on them.
Even a used camera store has limited warranty.
A new camera will work guaranteed for a much longer period. And the manufacturer has their rep riding on it.

We're not really talking about point and shoot cameras. I can't think of the last time I saw one in the wild.

But more to the point, to assume because something is "new" that it will be "good longer" is a little misguided. Moreover, this isn't really what I was getting at. Pentax has a history of releasing gimmicky cameras. I'm just curious who is funding these projects and who keeps giving the ok? Surely the camera line isn't that profitable unless they roll it in with something else on their books.

 

[Helge]

We're not really talking about point and shoot cameras. I can't think of the last time I saw one in the wild.

But more to the point, to assume because something is "new" that it will be "good longer" is a little misguided. Moreover, this isn't really what I was getting at. Pentax has a history of releasing gimmicky cameras. I'm just curious who is funding these projects and who keeps giving the ok? Surely the camera line isn't that profitable unless they roll it in with something else on their books.

I have a hard time following you.
They are talking about PnS camera.
New is new. Used is not.
Pentax has much the same rep as any other camera manufacturer WRT gimmickry.
“Keeps”? This is the first in a couple of decades.
Digital stopped being very profitable. Hence this new venture.

 

[Huss]

We're not really talking about point and shoot cameras. I can't think of the last time I saw one in the wild.

I see kids use them out here quite a bit. By kids I mean teenagers.

 

[JParker]

Problem with PnS cameras today is that you buy them and they work for a day, and then break. That just too bad. No one can or will work on them.

That is not true, fortunately. There are lots of camera repair experts doing repairs of P+S cameras.
For example Pierro Pozella in London has an excellent reputation in doing that.

 

[JParker]

We're not really talking about point and shoot cameras. I can't think of the last time I saw one in the wild.

Maybe you don't see them in Kentucky. But if you leave Kentucky, travel to the west or east coast, and especially if you leave the US and travel around the world, you will see them being used. Especially with young people, and women.
In Asia its a big deal, and very popular.
Look on youtube, and you will find countless videos in which P+S cameras are presented, often even really hyped.
And if you look on instagram, you will find hundreds of thousands of photographers regularly posting shots made with their film P+S cams.

 

[cmacd123]

I'm waiting for Pentax, or any of the big guys, to give us a full frame digital sensor that can be easily retrofit into existing film cameras. The sensor could go in the film plane, and the electronics and battery in the film compartment.

You forget Grashopper, that film is exposed in the plane of the film rails, which Digital sensors have a UV filter, a colour matrix, and perhaps more layers in front of the sensor. SO the sensor can't just sit on the film rails.

 

[flavio81]

Why not 69 then?
The 645 format is a sweet spot.
Significantly higher resolution and less grain than 135 put manageable still.
67 cameras are much bigger and the lenses comparatively slower.
Of course they are not “bad” or superfluous, but they do come with a set of compromises. I don’t think the majority of new and old film users is going to be willing to deal with.
If you need really high resolution and no grain whatsoever, then shoot 69 or 4x5 and use a tripod.

69 is a naughty number.

I'm a happy 6x4.5 user (SEE MY AVATAR...) but still I like 6x7. I agree with your opinion on 6x4.5.

For me 6x7 is a more manageable alternative to 4x5; while 6x4.5 is a better quality alternative to 35mm.

 

[Sharktooth]

You forget Grashopper, that film is exposed in the plane of the film rails, which Digital sensors have a UV filter, a colour matrix, and perhaps more layers in front of the sensor. SO the sensor can't just sit on the film rails.

Ye of little faith, Master. Tis but a small challenge for those of broad imagination and resolute will and training. Live long and prosper, Obi-123.

 

[rcphoto]

Maybe you don't see them in Kentucky. But if you leave Kentucky, travel to the west or east coast, and especially if you leave the US and travel around the world, you will see them being used. Especially with young people, and women.
In Asia its a big deal, and very popular.
Look on youtube, and you will find countless videos in which P+S cameras are presented, often even really hyped.
And if you look on instagram, you will find hundreds of thousands of photographers regularly posting shots made with their film P+S cams.

I've only been in Kentucky about 5 years now. Previously lived in Chicago, studied at a college downtown, lived across from Navy Pier, one of the largest tourist attractions in that city bringing in people from all around the world. When I speak of not seeing people use point and shoots, that's where the majority of my experience comes from. Furthermore, I am a young people. Not that I have an all encompassing group of friends, but the ones I do have, have not used or have owned and point and shoot in 10 years min.

To be fair, I did buy one for my 9 yo. She has shot one roll of 12 exp, and moved on to a Yashica 124g.

“Keeps”? This is the first in a couple of decades.

The "Q" series of cameras comes to mind. They were released like 2010 (ish)? If I'm not mistaken, that line has already been discontinued.

 

[Arthurwg]

Interesting take. I have 645, 6x6, and 6x7 cameras but if I could keep only one of those formats it would be 645. Reason: the 67 is too large for practical hand held walking around use (RZ67 Pro II in my case but true of pretty much all 6x7 SLRs - the rangefinders are workable) and with my 6x6 TLRs I end up cropping to roughly 6x4.5 more often than not - not always but probably 60-70% of the time - anyway.

Just goes to show how much the MVs in YMMV.

Yes, the Mamiya 7 & 7II rangefinders are easily hand held, and the lenses are superb. You do get lots of real estate with 67. Very close to the perfect camera IMHO, which is reflected in the used price today.

 

[BrianShaw]

I sure hope they provide a comprehensive manual, user guide, and blueprints with the new camera!

 

[JParker]

I've only been in Kentucky about 5 years now. Previously lived in Chicago, studied at a college downtown, lived across from Navy Pier, one of the largest tourist attractions in that city bringing in people from all around the world. When I speak of not seeing people use point and shoots, that's where the majority of my experience comes from. Furthermore, I am a young people. Not that I have an all encompassing group of friends, but the ones I do have, have not used or have owned and point and shoot in 10 years min.

Fine, that is your personal experience.
My experinece is different.
But neither your nor my personal experience is relevant.
Only the global market situation is relevant: And this situation is very clear, as it can be easily seen looking at the popularity of film P+S cameras on youtube, and especially on instagram.
With the search function and hashtags a very precise market analysis is possible for anyone interested on instagram. And then you see immediately that hundreds of thousands of film shooters are using film P+S cameras regularly. It is very popular.

For example I am sometimes using a Leica Z2X film P+S. A very rare camera in P+S terms, with much much less units sold compared to Olympus Stylus, Yashica T4, T5, Pentax Espios and so on. The Leica was a niche camera.
Nevertheless you see daily new pictures taken it with uploaded on instagram. And the total number of pictures with its hashtag is in a six-digit number range.

For Pentax it makes perfect sense to start their film project with a cheaper film P+S of that kind, exactly as they have explained in their video:
The market demand is definitely there, the price difference to the used market will not be too big, and such a camera is relatively easy to produce.
So perfect starter for them.
They have done their market research.

To be fair, I did buy one for my 9 yo. She has shot one roll of 12 exp, and moved on to a Yashica 124g.

Then the film P+S has worked very well: As a starter into film photography.

 

[Cholentpot]

We're not really talking about point and shoot cameras. I can't think of the last time I saw one in the wild.

But more to the point, to assume because something is "new" that it will be "good longer" is a little misguided. Moreover, this isn't really what I was getting at. Pentax has a history of releasing gimmicky cameras. I'm just curious who is funding these projects and who keeps giving the ok? Surely the camera line isn't that profitable unless they roll it in with something else on their books.

I've seen them all over the place. They're far more popular than SLRs. Look at the price of the Nikon F line and then look at point and shoots. The P&S are far more expensive than professional SLRs.

 

[flavio81]

Pentax (Ricoh) posted a video yesterday:



The mechanism shown on the video is the film advance lever, counter, and bottom mechanism found in the Pentax P30. Moreover the rewind knob is exactly as in the P30/P50 models.

This means the forthcoming camera will use a vertical shutter, just like the P30. The parts for cocking the shutter are visible on the underside of the camera.

It's also worth mentioning that the later incarnations of the P30 were built in China or Taiwan (can't remember). Most likely they will use the same factory.

 

[flavio81]

Oh, that explaines it.

I see what you did there!! Lol!! Based Helge!!

 

[abruzzi]

I really think that the Pentax DA 21mm limited lens looks fantastic, and I'd love to see them have an incoherent enough product direction that they engineer a new film camera that can use it properly.

could only happen if they do a half frame camera, the DA21 doesn't have enough image circle to cover a full 24x36 35mm frame. The DA40 and DA70, OTOH do, and I've used them on my SuperProgram and MZ-S.

 

[markjwyatt]

...he 67 is too large for practical hand held walking around use (RZ67 Pro II in my case but true of pretty much all 6x7 SLRs - the rangefinders are workable) and with my 6x6 TLRs...

Try a 6x9 folder sometime. Pretty compact and nice big negative (or slide).

 

[Craig]

I'm wondering of their SLR will be something with auto exposure, like a Super Program, or a slightly updated version of a K1000? - K2000?

 

[lxdude]

Had 645. Pretty sour spot. Sold off. Not any bigger than 6x6, which affords much more flexibility. Actually, the sweet spot would be 6x8. My preferred 4:3 format without cropping and, in reverse-curl backs, permits a spacing configuration that eliminates unflat bulges toward the lens.

But not an equal comparison as the 6X8 is much larger. 645 is also 4:3, so it depends on what you want- smaller size or bigger negative.
6X6 does offer more flexibility, the most efficient use of lens coverage, and camera size and weight is close enough to 645 that it's not like a whole different class of camera.

 

[Craig]

But not an equal comparison as the 6X8 is much larger. 645 is also 4:3, so it depends on what you want- smaller size or bigger negative.

For me, given the big jump in size and weight of a 645 SLR compared to 35mm, the 645 negative isn't big enough to justify the downsides. I instead use either a Pentax 67 when I need an SLR, or a Fuji 6x9 if I want a light carrying around MF camera. It's lighter than a Nikon SLR with a zoom lens, and the Fuji lens gives amazing negatives.

I figure 35mm - 6x9 - 4x5" is a nice progression of increasing quality/neg size, 645 doesn't fit well for me.

 

[Moose22]

I've only been in Kentucky about 5 years now.

5 years ago was a LONG time ago when it comes to the resurgence of film cameras.

This trend in the younger kids is mostly the last few years. Pandemic era, pretty much. And I've seen tons with P&S, mostly under 25s. I have a large group of friends half my age now, and most of them want point and shoots. I have given a few of them my castoffs, one 21 year old has run a bunch of rolls through my old work record, another just took my old WR-90 on a vacation. I helped two more with goodwill/ebay finds last year.

Another of that group just handed me her uncle's old P&S hoping we could make it work, which alas it does not, but she really wants one just like it. It's the thing for them.

Several also have regular SLRs or more professional cameras, but P&S with a built in flash that drop into a purse and can be pulled out at a party are super popular around here. Even amongst the folks who have vintage manual cameras.

 

[Helge]

Yes, the Mamiya 7 & 7II rangefinders are easily hand held, and the lenses are superb. You do get lots of real estate with 67. Very close to the perfect camera IMHO, which is reflected in the used price today.

And was reflected in the price when they were new.
This is not what Pentax should be aiming at.
The speed of the lenses in those two systems requires a photographer who really knows what they are doing and who is not tripod shy.
Otherwise, you’re pissing most of the resolution away in motion blur.