Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

Huss · Dec 27, 2022

Henning Serger said:
Hello Huss,
nitpicking mode on :
That camera was introduced in 2006 in Japan afaik.
Nitpicking mode off .
Please forgive me, I could not resist .

And that was an astonishingly low price considering the fact that it was a limited production run of only 8,000 units (!), and exclusively for the Japanese market.

These high-end compacts including Contax T2, T3, the Nikons, Ricoh GR, Leica Minilux etc. are now mainly in a price range of 800 to 1,500$ dependent on model and condition.
And in the price range of 1,000 to 1,500$ you could today definitely sell much more than 8,000 cameras globally.
As Ricoh/Pentax has explained in their video, on their camera-roadmap (priority list) a high-end compact is ranked on second position.
Right decision, very good market research.

Best regards,
Henning

I love my Klasse W. The lens is fantastic and the exposure compensation dial is perfect. Sure it has faults - very slow AF and exposure readout in the VF that is invisible outdoors, but I shoot it in P and trust it knows what it is doing! And it does.
Fuji could re-release this camera. They didn't stop making it that long ago - I think it is the newest out of the high end P&S cameras.

I think it has the lower price point because it does not feel anywhere near as solid as a Contax T2/T3 or Nikon 35 Ti, or Leica CM.

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

Also, Fuji's Klasse S is selling on the $900-$1200 right now on the bay. That is the current market price of premium p/s so my guess is that $500-$600 would be a great price for the standard/first model they release. Just guessing I would certainly buy if it was on that price range. Pentax cameras/glasses where always first class. Even now, K1 and K3 are superb machines.

Henning Serger · Dec 27, 2022

Huss said:
I love my Klasse W. The lens is fantastic and the exposure compensation dial is perfect.

I can completely understand your love for the Klasse W, Huss. Indeed a very nice camera.

Huss said:
Fuji could re-release this camera. They didn't stop making it that long ago - I think it is the newest out of the high end P&S cameras.

I agree. And yes, it has been the latest high-end compact on the market.
Fujifilm would also be able to produce a cheaper compact AF P&S camera again. They are operating their huge instax camera factory, most of the needed know-how and technology is there.

Best regards,
Henning

Paul Howell · Dec 27, 2022

Thinking about it, a bit odd that Fuji does not make a film camera, considering that they make film.

Cholentpot · Dec 27, 2022

Paul Howell said:
Thinking about it, a bit odd that Fuji does not make a film camera, considering that they make film.

Odder since they still call themselves Fujifilm.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 27, 2022

Well, technically they still make film cameras for their very popular Instax films.

Henning Serger · Dec 27, 2022

Andrew O'Neill said:
Well, technically they still make film cameras for their very popular Instax films.

Correct, Andrew, but please eliminate the word "still" in your sentence.
Because their instax instant film cameras are by far the most popular camera type (smartphones excluded) in both the film and the digital camera market.
They are selling about 8-10 million instax film cameras p.a. (during the last three years).
That is meanwhile more yearly unit volume than all digital camera manufacturers are producing combined (!!) - digital P+S, DSLM/EVIL and DSLRs combined (!!).
Polaroid is also selling quite a lot of instant film cameras (but much less than Fujifilm). The whole instant film camera market is a huge mass market again, and bigger than the declining digital camera market.

Best regards,
Henning

DREW WILEY · Dec 27, 2022

Many of you are probably too young to remember this. But at one time Kellogg made little individual serving boxes of breakfast cereal which you simply set down on the table, opened up on the top side, and poured milk right into, and then began eating right out of the box. Wouldn't be much difference in this case if they substituted edible film base for acetate. Just add milk and sugar, then toss the camera once you're done.

But I strongly suspect that this press release about hypothetical new Pentax cameras doesn't have anything in common with the disposable camera concept. There would be no point if that were the case. And hopefully nothing 3d printed either. It would be nice to have something again worthy of a camera store instead of Toys R Us.

Cholentpot · Dec 27, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Many of you are probably too young to remember this. But at one time Kellogg made little individual serving boxes of breakfast cereal which you simply set down on the table, opened up on the top side, and poured milk right into, and then began eating right out of the box. Wouldn't be much difference in this case if they substituted edible film base for acetate. Just add milk and sugar, then toss the camera once you're done.

But I strongly suspect that this press release about hypothetical new Pentax cameras doesn't have anything in common with the disposable camera concept. There would be no point if that were the case. And hopefully nothing 3d printed either. It would be nice to have something again worthy of a camera store instead of Toys R Us.

Loved those boxes as a kid. They still crop up once in a while.

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Many of you are probably too young to remember this. But at one time Kellogg made little individual serving boxes of breakfast cereal which you simply set down on the table, opened up on the top side, and poured milk right into, and then began eating right out of the box. Wouldn't be much difference in this case if they substituted edible film base for acetate. Just add milk and sugar, then toss the camera once you're done.

But I strongly suspect that this press release about hypothetical new Pentax cameras doesn't have anything in common with the disposable camera concept. There would be no point if that were the case. And hopefully nothing 3d printed either. It would be nice to have something again worthy of a camera store instead of Toys R Us.

The video strongly suggest that this won't be the case, but still hope they don't go the disponsable route even for their first try. Would be quite dissapointed if that is the case and a really bad blunder on their side.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 27, 2022

You don't have to be very old to remember those little cereal boxes. They were great for camping!

mshchem · Dec 27, 2022

Henning Serger said:
Correct, Andrew, but please eliminate the word "still" in your sentence.
Because their instax instant film cameras are by far the most popular camera type (smartphones excluded) in both the film and the digital camera market.
They are selling about 8-10 million instax film cameras p.a. (during the last three years).
That is meanwhile more yearly unit volume than all digital camera manufacturers are producing combined (!!) - digital P+S, DSLM/EVIL and DSLRs combined (!!).
Polaroid is also selling quite a lot of instant film cameras (but much less than Fujifilm). The whole instant film camera market is a huge mass market again, and bigger than the declining digital camera market.

Best regards,
Henning

I love Instax, I have a Wide camera, and a couple of the small wireless (mini and square) printers, these are amazing!

I want Fuii to make a version that takes negative film so I can print my digital photos onto 120 film. Then I could make a decent print without having to get inkjet ink all over me. Too much, I know.

Huss · Dec 27, 2022

mshchem said:
I love Instax, I have a Wide camera, and a couple of the small wireless (mini and square) printers, these are amazing!

I want Fuii to make a version that takes negative film so I can print my digital photos onto 120 film. Then I could make a decent print without having to get inkjet ink all over me. Too much, I know.

Slow down, I’m trying to white board this out. You want a wirless instax printer to take 120 film to capture your digitsl images to… hold on, where does the developer go?

summicron1 · Dec 27, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
Many of you are probably too young to remember this. But at one time Kellogg made little individual serving boxes of breakfast cereal which you simply set down on the table, opened up on the top side, and poured milk right into, and then began eating right out of the box. Wouldn't be much difference in this case if they substituted edible film base for acetate. Just add milk and sugar, then toss the camera once you're done.

But I strongly suspect that this press release about hypothetical new Pentax cameras doesn't have anything in common with the disposable camera concept. There would be no point if that were the case. And hopefully nothing 3d printed either. It would be nice to have something again worthy of a camera store instead of Toys R Us.

they still make these.

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

Agulliver said:
Unless you're shooting in dim jazz clubs or doing lots of night shooting, you almost never need anything faster even than f4.

Hell. I do shoot frequently in a dim jazz club. At f2.8, 1/30s.

From what I hear, a super fast lens isn't what people are looking for in a new film camera. They're actually happy with products from the past

A dim jazz club is not so dim if you can get away with that speed even on 1600 film with a 4 - 2.8 aperture.

“They” are are happy because that’s what’s there. Don’t equate availability and buying what’s there with being satisfied.

Marcelo Paniagua said:
Agree with you Agulliver. I love fast lenses (got a 0.95 lens for my Leica and love it). but like stated, this is a p/s, something small and fast to setup. Also, if is an autofocus, it will surely introduce dept of field issues unless it is a pretty wide lens, so a 2.8 or a bit slower would be totally fine IMHO.

And yeah, lets remember this cameras are not aimed at us, but to a public that want something small and easy to use that produce great results. Out of focus pictures due to fast lenses would be a bad reputation for the product.

There’s nothing to set up if it’s auto focus. And people love shallow depth of field. It’s completely different from what they used to on the phone, but associate it with the look from big sensor cameras.

Marcelo Paniagua said:
Yeah I'm sure it would be great, but remember it is their first model. They need to leave something to offer on their premium model .

Also, designing/making a fast lens would introduce cost/size issues. AF35ML was no small camera

Being able to shoot in what most people perceive as normal indoor light without flash, is not considered a premium feature anymore.

The desire to look like a “real” camera is partly what made the AF35ML be a little oversized (not a lot compared to other similar 2.8 models though). The filter ring, manual ISO slider and photocell was also a factor.
With a retractable lens, retro focus design and removal of the above kinks, it would absolutely be possible to slim a 1.9 40mm lens down to something only marginally less pocketable than a 2.8.

mshchem · Dec 28, 2022

Huss said:
Slow down, I’m trying to white board this out. You want a wirless instax printer to take 120 film to capture your digitsl images to… hold on, where does the developer go?

I can develop film. As long as I'm delusional, how about using sheet film that comes in an Instax cartridge

Agulliver · Dec 28, 2022

The jazz club is dim. It doesn't even have powerful spotlights - and there is a set of bright red uplighters *behind* the performers making exposure quite tricky. And it is perfectly reasonable to take photos there at 1/30 or 1/15 f2.8 at 1600.

Regarding DoF. Yes, bokeh is currently in fashion but the problem with auto focus especially on smaller cameras is that it doesn't always work that accurately. Adding a bit more DoF really helps here. If the autofocus is out by a foot, it doesn't matter if you're shooting at f4 or smaller.

I really don't see a super fast lens as being a big selling point for the market that Pentax have identified. I know some of these people and talk with camera shop staff around the UK. Not just my local but when I take a trip I always pop into any old style camera shops and talk. People coming new to photography either want an SLR of the K1000 type, or a decent P&S. Either way they're not bothered about fast lenses. No doubt if they make a K-mount SLR in the future there will be plenty of fast lenses available for it anyway.

George Mann · Dec 28, 2022

faberryman said:
Because the N90 is an all electronic plastic blob camera.

Not to mention being one of the most reliable and capable cameras ever made.

redbandit · Dec 28, 2022

George Mann said:
Not to mention being one of the most reliable and capable cameras ever made.

how well have the electronics held up? CAN you get the electronics repaired?

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 28, 2022

Helge said:
There’s nothing to set up if it’s auto focus. And people love shallow depth of field. It’s completely different from what they used to on the phone, but associate it with the look from big sensor cameras.

I was speaking about lens design. Also, there is a difference between shallow depth of field and a out of focus picture.

Helge said:
The desire to look like a “real” camera is partly what made the AF35ML be a little oversized (not a lot compared to other similar 2.8 models though). The filter ring, manual ISO slider and photocell was also a factor.
With a retractable lens, retro focus design and removal of the above kinks, it would absolutely be possible to slim a 1.9 40mm lens down to something only marginally less pocketable than a 2.8.

Look at current AF35ML prices vs say Olympus Mju or other similar small cameras prices. This speaks of what people looks for (small capable cameras that look stilysh, with no care/concern with tech issues). This is the market reality. Not saying that AF35ML isnt a great camera, but people that are ACTUALLY buying Olympus Mju at current prices look don't look for "real looking cameras"; thats what people is buying and paying for, not our pipe dreams. F2.8 Aperture (even probably F2) give a general aceptable dept of field but adding a faster lens will reduce the deep of field, which is cool for booke but not so cool with groups photos. That would imply either get used to out of focus group photos or adding aperture controls which complicate matters for theuser.

Ever wondered why Olympus 35 RC and XA don't get the Mju prices even thogh they are great/reliable cameras? No doubt that market could be change but that would imply a huge marketing campaign. Not sure if Pentax would want to change the market instead of benefit from a current stablished market. I think the second is a more commercial sound option. Leave the first one for the premium (follow up) model.

Just my 2 cents.

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 28, 2022

George Mann said:
Not to mention being one of the most reliable and capable cameras ever made.

You could say that again. Not a Nikon fanboy (more of a Canon fanboy myself). I had one and even though I didn't expected much, was really happy with its reliability and performance. Pretty nice camera to use.

Helge · Dec 28, 2022

Marcelo Paniagua said:
I was speaking about lens design. Also, there is a difference between shallow depth of field and a out of focus picture.

Look at current AF35ML prices vs say Olympus Mju or other similar small cameras prices. This speaks of what people looks for (small capable cameras that look stilysh, with no care/concern with tech issues). This is the market reality. Not saying that AF35ML isnt a great camera, but people that are ACTUALLY buying Olympus Mju at current prices look don't look for "real looking cameras"; thats what people is buying and paying for, not our pipe dreams. F2.8 Aperture (even probably F2) give a general aceptable dept of field but adding a faster lens will reduce the deep of field, which is cool for booke but not so cool with groups photos. That would imply either get used to out of focus group photos or adding aperture controls which complicate matters for theuser.

Ever wondered why Olympus 35 RC and XA don't get the Mju prices even thogh they are great/reliable cameras? No doubt that market could be change but that would imply a huge marketing campaign. Not sure if Pentax would want to change the market instead of benefit from a current stablished market. I think the second is a more commercial sound option. Leave the first one for the premium (follow up) model.

Just my 2 cents.

Mju II is a mix of it being a genuinely good though ugly camera, with everything in one package, protected by a sliding shell. And then a rampant hype machine that also sent AE-1 and Retina IIIC to the top.

The AF35ML is from just before the push for miniaturization of PnS cameras. That has more to do with its size than anything.

The Natura Black f1.9 is semi modern example of what is possible with aspherical elements.

The Fujifilm Natura Black F1.9 is an Ultra Wide and Super Fast Point and Shoot Film Camera

With a 24mm ultra wide-angle lens and a super fast maximum aperture of F/1.9 the Fujifilm Natura Black is a unique point-and-shoot camera!

casualphotophile.com

Cholentpot · Dec 28, 2022

Helge said:
Mju II is a mix of it being a genuinely good though ugly camera, with everything in one package, protected by a sliding shell. And then a rampant hype machine that also sent AE-1 and Retina IIIC to the top.

The AF35ML is from just before the push for miniaturization of PnS cameras. That has more to do with its size than anything.

The Natura Black f1.9 is semi modern example of what is possible with aspherical elements.

The Fujifilm Natura Black F1.9 is an Ultra Wide and Super Fast Point and Shoot Film Camera

With a 24mm ultra wide-angle lens and a super fast maximum aperture of F/1.9 the Fujifilm Natura Black is a unique point-and-shoot camera!

casualphotophile.com

Retinas jumped in price?

Arthurwg · Dec 28, 2022

Henning Serger said:
These high-end compacts including Contax T2, T3, the Nikons, Ricoh GR, Leica Minilux etc. are now mainly in a price range of 800 to 1,500$ dependent on model and condition.
And in the price range of 1,000 to 1,500$ you could today definitely sell much more than 8,000 cameras globally.

People overlook the Contax TVS, a fantastic P&S that can still be had for under $500. Mine was wonderful until it went haywire, but I understand that they can now be repaired when that happens.

redbandit · Dec 28, 2022

Arthurwg said:
People overlook the Contax TVS, a fantastic P&S that can still be had for under $500. Mine was wonderful until it went haywire, but I understand that they can now be repaired when that happens.

but the TVS III with the titanium body is not the camera pentax wants to make to get back into the low budget point and shoot market.

The market for digital point and shoot cameras is DEAD... most makers are just selling off old stocka nd not making or desiging new ones.

Even the bridge camera segment seems to have been killed off.

Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

Huss

Marcelo Paniagua

Henning Serger

Paul Howell

Cholentpot

Andrew O'Neill

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Henning Serger

DREW WILEY

Cholentpot

Marcelo Paniagua

Andrew O'Neill

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mshchem

Huss

summicron1

Helge

mshchem

Agulliver

George Mann

redbandit

Marcelo Paniagua

Marcelo Paniagua

Helge

The Fujifilm Natura Black F1.9 is an Ultra Wide and Super Fast Point and Shoot Film Camera

Cholentpot

The Fujifilm Natura Black F1.9 is an Ultra Wide and Super Fast Point and Shoot Film Camera

Arthurwg

redbandit

Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

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