Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

[Cholentpot]

This is what I'm thinking too. Maybe something like an updated UC-1/Espio Mini?

Exactly. Throw some improved autofocus on there and a date print on the back and you'll sell them by the truckload.

 

[albireo]

This is what I'm thinking too. Maybe something like an updated UC-1/Espio Mini?

Just googled that Espio Mini, looks great. Do it, Pentax!

 

[Film-Niko]

Yeah the Olympus Stylus/Mju range are fetching big money on the used market. My local camera shop had a few NOS examples in 2018 that they found in the basement when stock taking and they flew off the shelves in days. Then word got around and they had loads of enquiries about whether any were still available.

I've got two humble Mju 1 cameras and I can see the attraction. I was given them 10 years ago when they weren't considered special. But for a beginner, even for someone with experience, they deliver very high quality images.

But it's not just those models....Almost any late 80s or 90s P&S 35mm camera that's working is prized right now. They're simple to use, usually autofocus rather than fixed focus, most deliver good photos and yet most certainly do not look like digital cameras. Then after using those, generally people who want to get more serious want a film SLR.

Yepp.
Their presented "road map" in the video demonstrates that they have done a very good market research. And that they are beginning with the part of the project which can be done most easily.
I am confident that they will do it right!

 

[Huss]

What Pentax needs to do is get its new film cameras in the hands of some tiktok stars. That is where the eyeballs are at right now.

 

[MattKing]

What Pentax needs to do is get its new film cameras in the hands of some tiktok stars.

So Huss, do you dance for the cameras?

 

[Helge]

I'm getting so much joy from seeing Deleted Deleted Deleted.

I have an MJU 1 and love it. Issue is, it missed focus these days more times than not. It's not worth using anymore. I really like the simplicity and form factor of the camera. Moreso than the second version. If Pentax put out a clamshell simple fixed focal point and shoot it would sell like hotcakes.

Why is that?

Anyhow a PnS with AF is a no-brainer.
Fixed focus, unless they are going super wide is never going to fly in this day and age.

Specs should probably be in the ballpark of:
- f2 normal lens or lower. People have gotten used to low light shooting whenever they want without flash.
An f2 with 400 speed film should be able to squeeze through a useable shutter speed in even a living room.
- Infrared AF.
- The size of a Mju II or a little bigger.
- Build in bounce capable flash to make flash actually usable and good looking. No auto flash FFS!
- Freely adjustable ISO.
- Manual mode.

Nice to have:
- Build in simu-flashing in film gate. Could be marketed as SimuBoost ™ or similar.
- Extended data back also for between frames data of whatever.
- Filter slot with build in compensation.
- Runs off AA or AAA batteries.

 

[Cholentpot]

So Huss, do you dance for the cameras?

Give me a camera, I'll dance

Why is that?

Anyhow a PnS with AF is a no-brainer.
Fixed focus, unless they are going super wide is never going to fly in this day and age.

Specs should probably be in the ballpark of:
- f2 normal lens or lower. People have gotten used to low light shooting whenever they want without flash.
An f2 with 400 speed film should be able to squeeze through a useable shutter speed in even a living room.
- Infrared AF.
- The size of a Mju II or a little bigger.
- Build in bounce capable flash to make flash actually usable and good looking. No auto flash FFS!
- Freely adjustable ISO.
- Manual mode.

Nice to have:
- Build in simu-flashing in film gate. Could be marketed as SimuBoost ™ or similar.
- Extended data back also for between frames data of whatever.
- Filter slot with build in compensation.
Runs of AA or AAA batteries.

Fixed focal not focus. As in, I don't want nor need a 38-72 point and shoot. Nor do I think do most people.

I think the camera can be a bit larger than the MJU series, look at the Nikon One.Touch and how they've rocketed in price.

Bounceable flash? Kids dig the straight on look. ISO? Most kids know how to defeat it these days anyhow. No autoflash I agree with.

What is simu-flash?

 

[Huss]

Why is that?

Anyhow a PnS with AF is a no-brainer.
Fixed focus, unless they are going super wide is never going to fly in this day and age.

Specs should probably be in the ballpark of:
- f2 normal lens or lower. People have gotten used to low light shooting whenever they want without flash.
An f2 with 400 speed film should be able to squeeze through a useable shutter speed in even a living room.
- Infrared AF.
- The size of a Mju II or a little bigger.
- Build in bounce capable flash to make flash actually usable and good looking. No auto flash FFS!
- Freely adjustable ISO.
- Manual mode.

Nice to have:
- Build in simu-flashing in film gate. Could be marketed as SimuBoost ™ or similar.
- Extended data back also for between frames data of whatever.
- Filter slot with build in compensation.
Runs of AA or AAA batteries.

The reason people buy P&S cameras instead of slrs is to avoid all those things.

 

[Helge]

Fixed focal not focus. As in, I don't want nor need a 38-72 point and shoot. Nor do I think do most people.

I think the camera can be a bit larger than the MJU series, look at the Nikon One.Touch and how they've rocketed in price.

Bounceable flash? Kids dig the straight on look. ISO? Most kids know how to defeat it these days anyhow. No autoflash I agree with.

What is simu-flash?

Kids don’t know anything but the straight look.
They think that’s what flash is.
They could still have it though.
Would be pretty simple to do a swivel-able tiny flash head.

The difference between bounce flash and direct is like the difference between a slap in the face and a caressing stroke on the chin.
You get a stark black background and flat harsh lighting, blowing any details that gets in between the optimal distance.

How do you defeat ISO setting on a point and shoot?

Simu-flashing is simultaneous flashing. Same as pre-flashing used for decades to give a real speed increase when underexposing and push processing.
Only done at the moment of capture and therefore more effective.

You still didn’t answer why you like to see deleted posts?

 

[Helge]

The reason people buy P&S cameras instead of slrs is to avoid all those things.

No it isn’t. It’s because of convenience and size.
None of the things things I mention affects convince and size in the slightest.

 

[Paul Howell]

At my local camera shop that is now all film, they sell a lot of point and shoots, including the top of the line fixed lens models along with consumer grade point and shoots. Some who started with point and shoot are moving up to 35mm SLRs.

 

[Cholentpot]

Kids don’t know anything but the straight look.
They think that’s what flash is.
They could still have it though.
Would be pretty simple to do a swivel-able tiny flash head.

The difference between bounce flash and direct is like the difference between a slap in the face and a caressing stroke on the chin.
You get a stark black background and flat harsh lighting, blowing any details that gets in between the optimal distance.

How do you defeat ISO setting on a point and shoot?

Simu-flashing is simultaneous flashing. Same as pre-flashing used for decades to give a real speed increase when underexposing and push processing.
On don’t at the moment of capture and therefor more effective.

You still didn’t answer why you like to see deleted posts?

A swivel flash is just another expense and a failure point. It's not done on any of the super popular P&S now so why mess with it? Defeating the DX code is as simple as some tape and scissors. I do it all the time. Simiflashing, interesting but try to explain that to someone who just wants to load up and shoot. Won't mean anything. It's not much of a sales point. Do any camera do this natively?

As for the delete. Plain old schadenfreude with a dose of satisfaction that someone is trying to derail the conversation and getting slapped down most likely.

Now, yes. I'd love all these features on a point and shoot camera. Very nice. I'd also like a 24mm 1.8 lens, multi exposure option, talkback, backlight compensation, hotshoe, PC sync and a million other things. But I'd be fine with a full auto 35mm f/3.5 flash off button, clamshell pocketable point and shoot. This is doable. Start adding a wish list and you end up with a three thousand dollar camera that goes wonky after a year.

 

[Helge]

A swivel flash is just another expense and a failure point. It's not done on any of the super popular P&S now so why mess with it? Defeating the DX code is as simple as some tape and scissors. I do it all the time. Simiflashing, interesting but try to explain that to someone who just wants to load up and shoot. Won't mean anything. It's not much of a sales point. Do any camera do this natively?

As for the delete. Plain old schadenfreude with a dose of satisfaction that someone is trying to derail the conversation and getting slapped down most likely.

Now, yes. I'd love all these features on a point and shoot camera. Very nice. I'd also like a 24mm 1.8 lens, multi exposure option, talkback, backlight compensation, hotshoe, PC sync and a million other things. But I'd be fine with a full auto 35mm f/3.5 flash off button, clamshell pocketable point and shoot. This is doable. Start adding a wish list and you end up with a three thousand dollar camera that goes wonky after a year.

How do you know Jtk is not deleting most of the posts himself?

The features I describe would all of them cost very little to implement and add a tonne to the value and interest of the camera.
Technology and wants has not stood still since the time of the Mju II.
More would be possible and expected from a new PnS.

No one in their right mind would ever see that the left looks better than the right.


And that is even good direct flash.
Left looks gritty and snap-shotty. But the right is more flattering and “true” in most peoples book.

It could be very simple mechanically. Only an internal swivel reflector like in this flash.

You are talking about avoiding complication and then advocate that it’s OK for people to have to play along at home with Blue Peter to change the ISO? Something that should and can be trivial.

 

[Cholentpot]

How do you know Jtk is not deleting most of the posts himself?

The features I describe would all of them cost very little to implement and add a tonne to the value and interest to the the camera.
Technology and wants has not stood still since the time of the Mju II.
More would be possible and expected from a new PnS.

No one in their right mind would ever see that the left looks better than the right.

View attachment 324896
And that is even good direct flash.
Left looks gritty and snap-shotty. But the right is more flattering and “true” in most peoples book.

It could be very simple mechanically. Only an internal swivel reflector like in this flash.
View attachment 324897
You are talking about avoiding complication and then advocate that it’s OK for people to have to play along at home with Blue Peter to change the ISO? Something that should and can be trivial.

Maybe you're jtk's alt.

Anyhoo, if we went with no-one in their right mind we'd have lost b&w film long ago. We'd also have lost film come to think of it. We're not in our right mind. It's the human condition. Pentax is out of their mind for trying to make a new film camera. I'm out of my mind for wrestling with cranky old cameras that may or may not give results. We're all crazy. So having a harsh flash is an look that many want. Who am I to judge? I'm shooting 16mm film through 110 cameras.

 

[mshchem]

I wonder if Pentax kept any of the plastic molds etc? I would think that if Pentax could produce a nicely finished autofocus p&s, with a fast 40mm, at a reasonable, price it would sell well.

If they wanted to get $1000+, it would have to be made in Japan. That's unlikely.

 

[Huss]

….
Technology and wants has not stood still since the time of the Mju II.
More would be possible and expected from a new PnS.

Technology hasn’t, but wants has.

explain to me why a perfect condition Nikon N90s goes for $50 - a camera that has AF, multiple meter modes, motor drive, 1/8000 shutter - while the Pentax K1000 - a camera that is manual focus, manual exposure, one meter pattern, no motor drive, 1/1000 shutter - costs triple what the N90s does?

The N90s is so superior to the Pentax K1000, but no-one wants one.

This will be the same for a P&S. No-one wants what you describe, apart from you and a couple of other people who would never actually buy one.

p.s your photo of the girl? There are plenty of girls who would prefer the pic on the left w the direct flash because that pic makes the girl look thinner.

 

[faberryman]

explain to me why a perfect condition Nikon N90s goes for $50 - a camera that has AF, multiple meter modes, motor drive, 1/8000 shutter - while the Pentax K1000 - a camera that is manual focus, manual exposure, one meter pattern, no motor drive, 1/1000 shutter - costs triple what the N90s does?

Because the N90 is an all electronic plastic blob camera.

 

[Cholentpot]

Technology hasn’t, but wants has.

explain to me why a perfect condition Nikon N90s goes for $50 - a camera that has AF, multiple meter modes, motor drive, 1/8000 shutter - while the Pentax K1000 - a camera that is manual focus, manual exposure, one meter pattern, no motor drive, 1/1000 shutter - costs triple what the N90s does?

The N90s is so superior to the Pentax K1000, but no-one wants one.

This will be the same for a P&S. No-one wants what you describe, apart from you and a couple of other people who would never actually buy one.

p.s your photo of the girl? There are plenty of girls who would prefer the pic on the left w the direct flash because that pic makes the girl look thinner.

Not just that, it blasts away any imperfections of the skin in many cases.

Because the N90 is an all electronic plastic blob camera.

Yet it will allow the user to take better photos with less effort. Film is not about results anymore. If we want perfect we could get a DSLR and shoot in full auto JPG mode. Camera would get it right nearly every time.

We want stupid. We want rotary dial and busy signals. We want manual shift and carbonators.

 

[jtk]

I wonder if Pentax kept any of the plastic molds etc? I would think that if Pentax could produce a nicely finished autofocus p&s, with a fast 40mm, at a reasonable, price it would sell well.

If they wanted to get $1000+, it would have to be made in Japan. That's unlikely.

Pentax is owned by Ricoh, which made better-than-Leica P&S until recently, when it simply switched to digital.

If they want to introduce another film camera all they have to do is bring back their own Ricoh GR.

 

[Huss]

the clue is in the name of this type of camera. point and shoot. Not point, adjust a million settings, set bounce flash, override ISO, set preflash, set manual shutter speed.

P&S. not P&AS/SBF/OI/SPF/SMSS

 

[Huss]

Because the N90 is an all electronic plastic blob camera.

So? it can take way better pics in a far wider spectrum of circumstances.

But the buyer does not care. They want simple. They don’t want to think about pushing a bunch of buttons.
Same for the P&S pentax is working on.

 

[Paul Howell]

Same reason folk will pay good money for a manual typewriter, a really unsafe and not environmentally friendly VW bug rather than a modern family car, somethings take on a life based on vague memoirs of times past. The K1000 is a fine camera, but no better than a Chinon CM 7.

 

[Helge]

Technology hasn’t, but wants has.

explain to me why a perfect condition Nikon N90s goes for $50 - a camera that has AF, multiple meter modes, motor drive, 1/8000 shutter - while the Pentax K1000 - a camera that is manual focus, manual exposure, one meter pattern, no motor drive, 1/1000 shutter - costs triple what the N90s does?

The N90s is so superior to the Pentax K1000, but no-one wants one.

This will be the same for a P&S. No-one wants what you describe, apart from you and a couple of other people who would never actually buy one.

p.s your photo of the girl? There are plenty of girls who would prefer the pic on the left w the direct flash because that pic makes the girl look thinner.

Because
A. Design is very important. 90s design, even with all the insistence to the contrary over a couple of decades, has never “come back”. It’s too much like our own time, and is (F/N90 excluded) uuugly!
B. It’s huge and heavy.

What I describe is a modern PnS with very easy to implement and use features, that will actually make the camera desirable with its higher cost, over cheaper geriatric alternatives.

The by far most often heard complaint about film (apart from cost) is low light ability.
It’s very important for a new PnS to address this in a new and better way, because peoples expectations has changed. There will be no “but it’s thirty years old” to hide behind anymore.

A faster lens has been done before and is easier than ever with advances in plastic aspherical correction elements. Requires no interaction from the user.

Simu-flashing is just like flash or data back something that can just be left off if you don’t want or use it. But it would be tremendously powerful for pushing to 800, 1600 even 3200.

The bounce flash is similarly not something you’d ever have to touch. But it makes flash much much prettier, and it makes it much less unpleasant and intrusive indoors.

An even better alternative would be a small pocketable optional external flash and a trigger transmitter in the camera.

 

[Cholentpot]

It's like I told my little kids over the holidays. When you're very young you want something new, when you get a little older you want something old.

 

[Huss]

Well, whatever Pentax makes - if they do - I wish them the best!