Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

cmacd123 · Dec 26, 2022

Huss said:
explain to me why a perfect condition Nikon N90s goes for $50 - a camera that has AF, multiple meter modes, motor drive, 1/8000 shutter - while the Pentax K1000 - a camera that is manual focus, manual exposure, one meter pattern, no motor drive, 1/1000 shutter - costs triple what the N90s does?

As I mentioned a Hundred posts above, the K1000 is regularly specifed as a the Camera that a student should bring if they are taking a photography or Art course at the post secondary level. Manual Focus, Exposure, general lack of Automation is a Feature - not a bug - in many of the typical assignments on such a course. this is the Market that Arista.EDU Ultra and for that matter Kentmere film is also aimed at.
I would guess that part of the reason that the K1000 stayed in production so long was the continuing demand caused by the "School Camera" demand. Simalar competing Cameras like the Minolta X370/X300, actually had TOO MUCH automation to be acceptable to the Instructors.

mshchem · Dec 26, 2022

I would be surprised, happily, if Pentax would be fooling around with a SLR.

P&S, very nice 40mm f2 lens, amazing autofocus, pocketable. Stylish as can be, $500 price point.

Cholentpot · Dec 27, 2022

mshchem said:
I would be surprised, happily, if Pentax would be fooling around with a SLR.

P&S, very nice 40mm f2 lens, amazing autofocus, pocketable. Stylish as can be, $500 price point.

It doesn't have a PC sync nor can it take Minolta style cards. No dice.

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

Cholentpot said:
It doesn't have a PC sync nor can it take Minolta style cards. No dice.

That card shit is probably what marked the end for Minolta. Super hard to take a company seriously that sells program settings as separate cards to milk the naive consumer.

Film-Niko · Dec 27, 2022

Helge said:
That card shit is probably what marked the end for Minolta. Super hard to take a. company seriously that sells program settings as separate cards to milk the naive consumer.

It wasn't "the end" for Minolta, as after that they stayed number three in the sales ranking behind Canon and Nikon. And they have been number three already before the introduction of these cards.
So no general change in market success.
But indeed these cards were a failure and no sales success. Therefore Minolta stopped them and they were removed as a feature from later cameras.

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

Film-Niko said:
It wasn't "the end" for Minolta, as after that they stayed number three in the sales ranking behind Canon and Nikon. And they have been number three already before the introduction of these cards.
So no general change in market success.
But indeed these cards were a failure and no sales success. Therefore Minolta stopped them and they were removed as a feature from later cameras.

They made some great stuff after that. Put once you’ve accepted something like the cards into your fold it tells a story of a downturn and something fundamentally awry.

4season · Dec 27, 2022

Considering that much of the current competition has fixed-focus lens, f/11 aperture, and a single shutter speed, it shouldn’t be too hard for Pentax to create a standout product.

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

4season said:
Considering that much of the current competition has fixed-focus lens, f/11 aperture, and a single shutter speed, it shouldn’t be too hard for Pentax to create a standout product.

They are not competing with that. They are competing with the past.

Film-Niko · Dec 27, 2022

Helge said:
They are not competing with that. They are competing with the past.

Yes. With the technology of the latest film camera generation, which is available on the used market.
And therefore I think it is a good idea now to offer not only a new camera (and later more different models), but also an improved camera to distinguish that more from the used market and to be more attractive for new users. As the offerings on the used market are also cheaper.

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

It is indeed an interesting challenge. Like stated, it would not compete agaisnt current new offerings but with dozens (probably hundreds) of p/s models from the past, available on the used marked.

My bet would be a p/s with the common features:

-Lens aperture 2.8 (no real gain with a faster lens on this kind of camera).
-Fixed focal length.
-Autofocus.
-Building flash.

IMHO, I think the two most important things would be the build quality and, above all, a very good merketing campaing.

Huss · Dec 27, 2022

mshchem said:
I would be surprised, happily, if Pentax would be fooling around with a SLR.

P&S, very nice 40mm f2 lens, amazing autofocus, pocketable. Stylish as can be, $500 price point.

In 2007 Fuji released the Klasse S which had a 38mm 2.8 lens.
It cost $680 in 2007.

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

Film-Niko said:
Yes. With the technology of the latest film camera generation, which is available on the used market.
And therefore I think it is a good idea now to offer not only a new camera (and later more different models), but also an improved camera to distinguish that more from the used market and to be more attractive for new users. As the offerings on the used market are also cheaper.

Exactly!

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

Marcelo Paniagua said:
My bet would be a p/s with the common features:

-Lens aperture 2.8 (no real gain with a faster lens on this kind of camera).

Why do you think that?

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

Helge said:
Why do you think that?

Remember this is a p/s. Most of the p/s used this kind of speed, if not slower, and did pretty well, both on performance and selling figures. Perfectly fine for daytime shooting. Why complicate a working formula. Also, remember that they planning a step up model sometime so they could keep that for the "premium compact" model or something.

Cholentpot · Dec 27, 2022

Marcelo Paniagua said:
It is indeed an interesting challenge. Like stated, it would not compete agaisnt current new offerings but with dozens (probably hundreds) of p/s models from the past, available on the used marked.

My bet would be a p/s with the common features:

-Lens aperture 2.8 (no real gain with a faster lens on this kind of camera).
-Fixed focal length.
-Autofocus.
-Building flash.

IMHO, I think the two most important things would be the build quality and, above all, a very good merketing campaing.

That's it. KISS. Nothing else needed. If these things sell like I think they would then they can put out a Pro spec camera with a threaded shutter release or whatever.

Agulliver · Dec 27, 2022

mshchem said:
I would be surprised, happily, if Pentax would be fooling around with a SLR.

P&S, very nice 40mm f2 lens, amazing autofocus, pocketable. Stylish as can be, $500 price point.

Perhaps you could watch the video?

They make it clear they're looking at bringing several cameras to the market in the coming years. With the endgame being, they hope, a fully mechanical SLR. The first camera, though, is likely to be a P&S.

A decent P&S and a 35mm SLR are *exactly* what people coming new to film photography are buying, and would like to buy new.

I also don't think they're "competing with the past". They're looking at a market which has opened up quite recently and which nobody else currently occupies. Therefore they're not really competing with the f/11 fixed shutter, fixed focus brigade either. The manufacturers of such machines can rest easily knowing their market share isn't likely to be much affected.

Helge · Dec 27, 2022

Marcelo Paniagua said:
Remember this is a p/s. Most of the p/s used this kind of speed, if not slower, and did pretty well, both on performance and selling figures. Perfectly fine for daytime shooting. Why complicate a working formula. Also, remember that they planning a step up model sometime so they could keep that for the "premium compact" model or something.

People would love a faster lens. Even if they don’t know it.
The Canon AF35ML is one of my favorites for exactly that reason. A rather good 40mm 1.9 lens.
Surely we should be able to do better than in 1981‽

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

Agulliver said:
...

I also don't think they're "competing with the past". They're looking at a market which has opened up quite recently and which nobody else currently occupies. Therefore they're not really competing with the f/11 fixed shutter, fixed focus brigade either. The manufacturers of such machines can rest easily knowing their market share isn't likely to be much affected.

Could be. Nothing beats buying and opening a new camera/lens .

Also, if it is on an acceptable price range, it is worth having a camera with warranty and be sure it won't fail so easily. Had several Pentax cameras thru the years, even an IQ Zoom, and never had any issue with them. Great quality, even on their "plastic blob" models. Nothing to complain.

jtk · Dec 27, 2022

The only suggestion I'd make, if Ricoh wanted to make a film Pentax, would be to replicate Canon P with modern construction and optics.

Agulliver · Dec 27, 2022

Unless you're shooting in dim jazz clubs or doing lots of night shooting, you almost never need anything faster even than f4.

This recent near mania for super fast lenses, high ISO and daftly fast shutter speeds is purely a product of digital photography.

Hell. I do shoot frequently in a dim jazz club. At f2.8, 1/30s.

From what I hear, a super fast lens isn't what people are looking for in a new film camera. They're actually happy with products from the past except that they sometimes don't work when bought, or need an expensive repair after a few rolls, or develop some annoying fault part way through a roll. I don't think that the people who are getting into film photography and looking to buy a new camera are especially desiring an f1.8 or faster lens. F2.8, f4 would be fine.

The Olympus Mji was f3.5, Konica Z-up range were f3.5 or smaller. Canon Sure Shot Zoom f3.5

That's what was typical and that's what people are looking to buy.

Remember once again, these possible new Pentax cameras are not aimed at us.

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

Helge said:
People would love a faster lens. Even if they don’t know it.
The Canon AF35ML is one of my favorites for exactly that reason. A rather good 40mm 1.9 lens.
Surely we should be able to do better than in 1981‽

Yeah I'm sure it would be great, but remember it is their first model. They need to leave something to offer on their premium model .

Also, designing/making a fast lens would introduce cost/size issues. AF35ML was no small camera

Marcelo Paniagua · Dec 27, 2022

Agulliver said:
Unless you're shooting in dim jazz clubs or doing lots of night shooting, you almost never need anything faster even than f4.

This recent near mania for super fast lenses, high ISO and daftly fast shutter speeds is purely a product of digital photography.

Hell. I do shoot frequently in a dim jazz club. At f2.8, 1/30s.

From what I hear, a super fast lens isn't what people are looking for in a new film camera. They're actually happy with products from the past except that they sometimes don't work when bought, or need an expensive repair after a few rolls, or develop some annoying fault part way through a roll. I don't think that the people who are getting into film photography and looking to buy a new camera are especially desiring an f1.8 or faster lens. F2.8, f4 would be fine.

The Olympus Mji was f3.5, Konica Z-up range were f3.5 or smaller. Canon Sure Shot Zoom f3.5

That's what was typical and that's what people are looking to buy.

Remember once again, these possible new Pentax cameras are not aimed at us.

Agree with you Agulliver. I love fast lenses (got a 0.95 lens for my Leica and love it). but like stated, this is a p/s, something small and fast to setup. Also, if is an autofocus, it will surely introduce dept of field issues unless it is a pretty wide lens, so a 2.8 or a bit slower would be totally fine IMHO.

And yeah, lets remember this cameras are not aimed at us, but to a public that want something small and easy to use that produce great results. Out of focus pictures due to fast lenses would be a bad reputation for the product.

4season · Dec 27, 2022

Helge said:
They are not competing with that. They are competing with the past.

The past is being sold in “Parts/As-is” condition, and that’s the point of offering new cameras.

Henning Serger · Dec 27, 2022

Huss said:
In 2007 Fuji released the Klasse S which had a 38mm 2.8 lens.

Hello Huss,
nitpicking mode on :
That camera was introduced in 2006 in Japan afaik.
Nitpicking mode off .
Please forgive me, I could not resist .

Huss said:
It cost $680 in 2007.

And that was an astonishingly low price considering the fact that it was a limited production run of only 8,000 units (!), and exclusively for the Japanese market.

These high-end compacts including Contax T2, T3, the Nikons, Ricoh GR, Leica Minilux etc. are now mainly in a price range of 800 to 1,500$ dependent on model and condition.
And in the price range of 1,000 to 1,500$ you could today definitely sell much more than 8,000 cameras globally.
As Ricoh/Pentax has explained in their video, on their camera-roadmap (priority list) a high-end compact is ranked on second position.
Right decision, very good market research.

Best regards,
Henning

jtk · Dec 27, 2022

jtk said:
The only suggestion I'd make, if Ricoh wanted to make a film Pentax, would be to replicate Canon P with modern construction and optics.

Canon P was Leica M2's only "affordable" rival. Nikon didn't even try. Pentax ME et al were wonderful, could be pocketable with pancake lenses, but Nikon et al figured out how to make proper (digital) cameras... Pentax K20D (which I owned was better (for me) but for its now-antique internal software) and was bulky. Today both Nikon and Canon seem to be abandoning the prosumer/pro market, not to mention their avoidance of film, Olympus has bigger concerns, so I think Ricoh/Pentax would the best bet for people who fear digital tech.

Pentax announces that they're working on new film cameras!

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