Pentax 6x7

You do want the shutter curtain tripped before the mirror hits, regardless, if you shoot handheld. Just common sense anyway. Higher speeds. I took some handheld shots from the summit of Haleakala the last two years when it was so damn windy up there even a tripod was out of the question. Yeah, I'd brace my elbow on a rock or the car roof. Since the subjects were at inifinity, I used the lens only one stop down from full wide to allow for a fast exposure. And yeah, the prints are immaculately sharp, as good as with a tripod under normal circumstances. That's what I like this camera for - quick operation, esp under circumstances when my view camera would become a kite due to the large bellows. But given a choice - a wooden Ries tripod and mirror-lockup every time. Back when my brother was alive and a Rollei and Linhof salesman, he'd demonstrate the softness of the Rollei 66 shutter by resting a dime on end atop the body and tripping the
shutter. The dime didn't move. If you did that with the P67, the dime would probably flip across the room. But in terms of handling, whenever we were out shooting together, he preferred to borrow my Pentax. So go figure. It's a nice system, and affordable to boot.

I also had issues with my glasses and the TTL viewer until I got an eye cup for it. Now I press my glasses close and don't bump metal anymore. And the waist level finder is super easy to focus critically.

DREW WILEY said:

....Back when my brother was alive and a Rollei and Linhof salesman, he'd demonstrate the softness of the Rollei 66 shutter by resting a dime on end atop the body and tripping the
shutter. The dime didn't move. If you did that with the P67, the dime would probably flip across the room. ...

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Actually, the results will be much the same: Dead Link Removed

Update:

After one week with the P67 i'm liking it a lot. The ergonomics are very good and it feels light enough to be brought to many places. This is my first Pentax camera and I'm starting to eye the possibility of buying a 35mm Pentax camera, if the quality is similar.

flavio81 said:

Update:
I'm starting to eye the possibility of buying a 35mm Pentax camera, if the quality is similar.

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you need to do some research on that. some of their stuff was top notch, other was cheap consumer-type. the Takumar M42-mount lenses were all of excellent build quality.

Hatchetman said:

you need to do some research on that. some of their stuff was top notch, other was cheap consumer-type. the Takumar M42-mount lenses were all of excellent build quality.

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Yep. I'm thinking of an ESII.

My first camera was an early Honeywell Pentax. I went thru hell before finally wearing out my favorite shutter speed. These were tough little cameras and can still be found. The problem with any camera this old, even if lightly used, is going to be things like the condition of the gasketing, which can decompose over time. Wish I could find one, cause I still have my old thread-in lens, which has a lovely rendering quite different from my modern very contrasty Nikkor lenses. I don't think they made anything resembling crap that far back. Early Pentaxes were noted for their reliability. But I even gave a later one, a tiny little MX, to my nephew for expedition use and extreme climbs in the Arctic, Patagonia, and the Himalayas. It worked superbly as long as he was mindful to keep the light meter battery warm. Lots of shots ended up in magazines or in outdoor equip ads.

flavio81 said:

Yep. I'm thinking of an ESII.

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I once owned a lovely black ESII and it was a very nice camera, but if I were to buy another Pentax M42 now it would be what Drew was talking about above. Yup, an nice, clean Honeywell / Pentax Spotmatic. Why the Spotmatic instead of the ESII? Electronics! I trust the simple circuits in the Spotmatic to the more complicated ESII. Trust me, I've had both apart and know. The odds of getting an ESII that meters spot on is iffy. I'm also one that favors the rendering of the 55mm f1.8 over any of the Pentax F1.4 lenses. Yes, even the later K-mount 50mm f1.4's. I still have one Honeywell/Pentax Spotmatic and a 55mm f1.8 along with two 50mm f1.4 Takumars. The 50mm f1.4's are not bad, but the 55mm f1.8 is just a peach. Also, if you want "mirror-lock-up" on your Spotmatic just practice flicking a pea off the top of your shutter release button. Pretty soon you'll be able to lock your mirror up and stop the aperture down with the flick of a finger. I have a ton of old cameras, but will always keep one Spotmatic and 55mm f1.8 'cause I like it a lot. John W

Update.

Got my first roll developed, my first contact prints, and my first 8x10" enlargement.

On to the enlargement. It is a group picture, 4 people sitting down, full body length, them filling out about 75% of the frame.
Shutter speed was either 1/60 or 1/125, probably 1/60. Handheld, of course.

Well the picture is not as sharp as i would have expected. It is definitely sharp for 35mm standards but not for 6x7 standards. Focus is correct, and I can see the lack of sharpness is due to camera shake, because i took about 3 pictures of the same people and one of the three was indeed very sharp, the other two did not.

In some ways i sort-of confirm my feelings about the Pentax 67 and it's camera shake: That it will not do too much harm to the image if this was a 35mm-format camera, but that with the 6x7 format the photographer has a higher expectation of sharpness, resolution and image quality. So one needs to be extra careful.

I still think, thus, that the camera shake of the P67 is still acceptable, and I still think this is a very nice camera. But certainly if I had brought my Mamiya RB67, the picture would have been sharper. This because the RB is a more stable machine in the hands, and has less vibrations. With modern 100-speed film the RB can fool you into believing the picture was shot with a 4x5" camera (and regular film)!

In the same way, a super-stable/smooth 35mm SLR like the Canon F-1N or the Nikon F2, and modern 100-speed film, goes close to 6x4.5 medium format in quality.

Don't be too hasty to fault the equipment. It could be the operator. ;-)

There is a difference in weight distribution between the Mamiya and the Pentax. If you are inclined to hold the Pentax the same way you might hold a light-weight 35mm body (at both sides of the body only) this may add to motion at the time you press the shutter. Add the slow shutter speeds into the equation and motion blur is bound to present itself. If you are not already doing so, consider holding the camera with one hand at the body (on the shutter-button side) whilst the other hand supports the lens all the way out where the lens filter attaches. The point is to minimize lens/camera movement. This may help your situation when using the Pentax handheld. Just throwing out some ideas.

Back in the 80's when we did a lot of traveling I took the 6x7 from TN to Niagara Falls and Orlando and found under all circumstances that if I used at least 125 and preferably 250th second, regardless the lens, I always got sharp photos. My main three lens were the 45 f/4, 90 and 165 f.2.8. Superbly sharp lens and format combination. I lugged it around the World's Fair in 1982 and while not a 35mm camera the weight wasn't too bad even when used with a broad camera strap. I did also had the side mounted handle as well. It all requires some getting use to.

DannL. said:

There is a difference in weight distribution between the Mamiya and the Pentax. If you are inclined to hold the Pentax the same way you might hold a light-weight 35mm body (at both sides of the body only)

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Mmm... I have never ever held a 35mm body in that way, which IMO is a bad way to hold a SLR.
My stepdad taught me how to correctly hold a 35mm SLR when I used such a machine for the first time, when I was about 11 or 12

DannL. said:

this may add to motion at the time you press the shutter. Add the slow shutter speeds into the equation and motion blur is bound to present itself. If you are not already doing so, consider holding the camera with one hand at the body (on the shutter-button side) whilst the other hand supports the lens all the way out where the lens filter attaches. The point is to minimize lens/camera movement. This may help your situation when using the Pentax handheld. Just throwing out some ideas.

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Exactly, i always hold 35mm SLRs in that way: Left hand cradles the lens, right hand holds the body, pressing firmly the camera back against my forehead and cheeks. That's how i hold the P67 as well. Also, inhale and stop breathing before pressing the shutter button.

I don't want to brag in any ways, but back when I worked as a photographer I specialized in jazz concert photography with low light levels, so most of my shots were between 1/8" to 1/30". Of course, the expectation of sharpness at those speeds are not so high as well. I do care about camera vibration a lot since those are the speeds i'm most likely to use. I have a shot done a few years ago with the Mamiya C330, HP5 pushed to 1600, exposure was 1/4" or 1/8" at f4, and the shot was very sharp in a 11x11"-equivalent enlargement. I used the side grip for this. So i'm used to keeping the thing steady.

Now, ColColt and you are correct:

DannL. said:

Don't be too hasty to fault the equipment. It could be the operator. ;-)

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ColColt mentions having the big wooden handle for the P67. I'm guessing that I will need to improve my handholding technique further with the P67, and also using some sort of grip. I do have a pistol grip for the C330 that I never had the chance to use. It seems that I should try it with the P67.

BTW, Note that i never ever wanted to suggest that the lenses (in this case the SMC 90/2.8) were at fault. Pentax surely knows how to make lenses (my heart still sides with Canon, though.)

I also, like ColColt, find this camera remarkably light and compact for a 6x7 camera. A big plus.

Thanks guys!!

Pentax at one time also offered a focusing ring that would fit the 90 and 165 lens. With the handle on the left you used a couple of fingers to adjust the focus with that ring. I forget it's proper name but I used it quite a bit and found it better than holding the lens with the left hand. The wooden handle was, of course, indispensable if you intended to use flash and the focus ring worked even better in that setup.

Quick Focus Ring...that's what it's called.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pen...sp;499;374&usg=__RVGLd6Whv1gJd7eZot603sDuO0k=

I have avoided buying the grip for mine. The additional weight would not be welcomed. I prefer to support the lens itself. And of the 3 camera bags that I use to carry the Pentax, I would have to remove the grip anyways. So. for me there's really no upside for having one.

DannL. said:

And of the 3 camera bags that I use to carry the Pentax, I would have to remove the grip anyways. So. for me there's really no upside for having one.

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Well, i have the same problem with the Pentax 2x finder magnifier. I need to remove it before putting the camera on the camera bag (otherwise it can get bent if the bag is knocked about), and it's very slow to remove.

I really could use the waist level finder; it has bigger magnification.

The flat little waist-level finder is nowhere near as nice for focus and viewing as the tall chimney finder, but it is a lot more compact and light. I have both,, as well as prism finders, which are quicker to use but not as bright. I've never thought I needed a grip. These might have
been nice back when tall flash guns were bolted to them.

Exactly, i always hold 35mm SLRs in that way: Left hand cradles the lens, right hand holds the body, pressing firmly the camera back against my forehead and cheeks. That's how i hold the P67 as well. Also, inhale and stop breathing before pressing the shutter button.

Even better: inhale normally and gently exhale (halfway), relax and hold, let your heartbeat and body motion slow down to its optimal low. This happens after approximately five seconds. Target shooters use this technique while aiming.

Jos Segers said:

Exactly, i always hold 35mm SLRs in that way: Left hand cradles the lens, right hand holds the body, pressing firmly the camera back against my forehead and cheeks. That's how i hold the P67 as well. Also, inhale and stop breathing before pressing the shutter button.

Even better: inhale normally and gently exhale (halfway), relax and hold, let your heartbeat and body motion slow down to its optimal low. This happens after approximately five seconds. Target shooters use this technique while aiming.

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Thanks Jos!! This might be one of the best photography advice i've ever received!

[/I]
Even better: inhale normally and gently exhale (halfway), relax and hold, let your heartbeat and body motion slow down to its optimal low. This happens after approximately five seconds. Target shooters use this technique while aiming.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much what the USMC taught us in 1968 except they tried to get us to "squeeze off" between heartbeats. I never really could get that "between heartbeat" thing, but I did qualify as an expert rifleman so what they taught did work if you followed directions. I have always tried to use the same system when I take important shots, camera or rifle. They also taught us to use a rest if available. Rock, tree, pack, body or whatever. That works for cameras just as well as it does for rifles too. John W

I prefer a big wooden tripod. That way if someone walks up and asks why I'm not shooting pictures with a cell phone like everyone else, I can
just whack them with the thing.

DREW WILEY said:

I prefer a big wooden tripod. That way if someone walks up and asks why I'm not shooting pictures with a cell phone like everyone else, I can
just whack them with the thing.

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Yes, I almost always have my Bogen Manfrotto 3033 in the car, but don't always feel like taking it when I'm scouting unless I'm in a bad neighborhood. I put a Kirk BH-1 ball head on it and now it's a "KILLER CLUB" and a rock-steady one at that. John W

JW PHOTO said:

[/I]

That's pretty much what the USMC taught us in 1968 except they tried to get us to "squeeze off" between heartbeats. I never really could get that "between heartbeat" thing, but I did qualify as an expert rifleman so what they taught did work if you followed directions. I have always tried to use the same system when I take important shots, camera or rifle. They also taught us to use a rest if available. Rock, tree, pack, body or whatever. That works for cameras just as well as it does for rifles too. John W

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When I was in basic way back in 1966 when we qualified with the M14 we went from foxhole to foxhole and someone would give us a full round magazine. We'd lay the rifle over sandbags and fire at silhouette targets that would pop up at unknown distances until they appeared. Since that time I've shot everything but the 308 we had in the Army to include everything from the .222 to Black Powder cartridge rifles and the same principles apply to all-don't jerk that trigger!

I have a rather heavy Manfrotto tripod but seldom use it with 35mm but often did with the 6x7.

DREW WILEY said:

I prefer a big wooden tripod. That way if someone walks up and asks why I'm not shooting pictures with a cell phone like everyone else, I can
just whack them with the thing.

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in heavy wind i have used my wooden very heavy duty takahashi telescope tri-pod. keeps the Pentax 67 rock solid. but the tripod weighs 20+ pounds, so only places that are close to the car.

The only time I felt the need to use a tripod with the 6x7 was when I was doing night shots at the World's Fair where I used Ektachrome 50 and knew the exposures would be in the vicinity of 2-8 seconds and of course, used the mirror lock up feature. Otherwise, I never had any problem hand holding it.

DREW WILEY said:

I prefer a big wooden tripod. That way if someone walks up and asks why I'm not shooting pictures with a cell phone like everyone else, I can
just whack them with the thing.

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More than general shake caused by the large mirror, the killjoy of the Pentax 67 seems to be the high frequency vibrations and torque caused by the horizontal focal plane shutter in the range of medium shutter speeds from, say 1/25, to 1/60. By using your body as a support these vibrations are very effectively dampened due to its -physically- "high mass and low stiffness" properties and resistance to torque. To a large extent a stable, heavy wooden tripod has these characteristics too and is of course superior at longer shutter speeds. In practice many even high priced aluminium or carbon fibre tripods, although stiff and rigid, may fail with the Pentax 6x7. Paradox: in specific situations (medium shutter speeds) handheld shots are superior. At least this is what I found.