Pentax 67II + Flash

[Peter Rockstroh01]

I´ve been trying to photograph birds in flight with my Pentax 67II and different flash set-ups, but have found the 1/30 sec. sync speed to be a strong limiting factor. Does anyone have experience using this camera + flash with one of the leaf-shutter lenses to stop motion ?
Here are some samples where I am now.

 

[johnha]

I have the 90mm leaf shutter lens. In order for it to work in leaf shutter mode you need to set the body to 1/8th second.

When you hit the shutter release, the leaf shutter closes, waits for the focal plane shutter to open, the leaf then fires, then the focal plane shutter closes and finally the leaf opens again. The whole process makes the precise moment of exposure hard to predict.

The 90mm L/S lens has a U/S switch (IIRC the 165 L/S doesn't?) - U is 'usual' leaf shutter mode, S is 'special'. 'S' allows the leaf shutter to fire on it's own (using the cable release socket on the lens) by opening the focal plane shutter after closing the leaf shutter - you can fire the L/S multiple times for multiple exposures. However, you can't see through the viewfinder if you do this.

Update: see this link for more info: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/Pentax-SMC-Takumar-6x7-90mm-F2.8-Leaf-Shutter.html

The lens manual (which can be found online) also details how it works.

 

[Neil Grant]

I´ve been trying to photograph birds in flight with my Pentax 67II and different flash set-ups, but have found the 1/30 sec. sync speed to be a strong limiting factor. Does anyone have experience using this camera + flash with one of the leaf-shutter lenses to stop motion ?
Here are some samples where I am now.

...in the photos you attached the birds

I´ve been trying to photograph birds in flight with my Pentax 67II and different flash set-ups, but have found the 1/30 sec. sync speed to be a strong limiting factor. Does anyone have experience using this camera + flash with one of the leaf-shutter lenses to stop motion ?
Here are some samples where I am now.

..in the photos you attached the motion of the birds IS largely 'stopped'. That's a fuction of the short exposure from the flash illumination. You're right to believe that there will be some residual blurring (at a low level) from the continuous exposure at 1/30 sec - but this won't be much. Could you reduce the brightness of your studio? Can you reduce the power of your flash? - this will shorten the exposure time. Synch multiple flasguns together working at very low power output so ypu can get the aperture you need. Alternatively, borrow or hire the leaf shutter lens or hire another brand of mid-format camera with a lens shutter instead of focal plane.

 

[AgX]

Aside of reducing shutter-speed to alter the effective ratio of ambient to flash light is to highten the amount of flashlight, the same time reducing the aperture.

One approach might be, as one likely uses narrow-angle lenses anway, to crank-up angular output of a flash by using a respective tele-attachment for the flash, or to improvise such.

Used on-camera flashes are dirt-cheap by now. To highten flash output, you could thus use multiple samples synch-wired in parallel. (The number of flashes though is restricted by the electrical load the camera sync-switch can take.)

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

I have the 90mm leaf shutter lens. In order for it to work in leaf shutter mode you need to set the body to 1/8th second.

When you hit the shutter release, the leaf shutter closes, waits for the focal plane shutter to open, the leaf then fires, then the focal plane shutter closes and finally the leaf opens again. The whole process makes the precise moment of exposure hard to predict.

The 90mm L/S lens has a U/S switch (IIRC the 165 L/S doesn't?) - U is 'usual' leaf shutter mode, S is 'special'. 'S' allows the leaf shutter to fire on it's own (using the cable release socket on the lens) by opening the focal plane shutter after closing the leaf shutter - you can fire the L/S multiple times for multiple exposures. However, you can't see through the viewfinder if you do this.

Update: see this link for more info: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/Pentax-SMC-Takumar-6x7-90mm-F2.8-Leaf-Shutter.html

The lens manual (which can be found online) also details how it works.

...in the photos you attached the birds

..in the photos you attached the motion of the birds IS largely 'stopped'. That's a fuction of the short exposure from the flash illumination. You're right to believe that there will be some residual blurring (at a low level) from the continuous exposure at 1/30 sec - but this won't be much. Could you reduce the brightness of your studio? Can you reduce the power of your flash? - this will shorten the exposure time. Synch multiple flasguns together working at very low power output so ypu can get the aperture you need. Alternatively, borrow or hire the leaf shutter lens or hire another brand of mid-format camera with a lens shutter instead of focal plane.

Aside of reducing shutter-speed to alter the effective ratio of ambient to flash light is to highten the amount of flashlight, the same time reducing the aperture.

One approach might be, as one likely uses narrow-angle lenses anway, to crank-up angular output of a flash by using a respective tele-attachment for the flash, or to improvise such.

Used on-camera flashes are dirt-cheap by now. To highten flash output, you could thus use multiple samples synch-wired in parallel. (The number of flashes though is restricted by the electrical load the camera sync-switch can take.)

Thank you all for your comments. I started with a dedicated Pentax flash to trigger two slave units @ 1/64 and 1/128 power, to get the short burst
necessary to stop motion. The problem of a 1/30 sec. synch speed is that I have to find a spot and the timing that will underexpose the background,
and expose and freeze the bird correctly, without ghosting. I understand that the clumsy mechanics of this large format can´t synchronize faster.
Those mechanics aren´t getting more agile with the leaf shutter, but I found someone locally who will lend me a 165 to try it out.
I did find an IR trigger that I mounted on the camera´s hotshoe and it does work, firing both flashes to freeze the birds in flight, without the on camera
flash that caused the ghosting.
Almost great, except that it does it only every second frame. And Murphy´s law is infallible: on every second frame I get the blurred outline of a
dissappearing tail feather, while - I´m sure - that the frames in between have perfectly posed and crisp images.
I´ll have some time in December to follow your suggestions, try and post the results. If I don´t post anything, you might see my gear on the
For Sale List
Have a great weekend

 

[Dan Fromm]

This may sound counterintuitive, but one way to eliminate ambient light's effect on exposure is to use slow film or an ND filter and flash powerful enough to overpower ambient completely. I used to shoot flower out-of-doors with a Nikon FM2n (sync speed 1/250), KM (ISO 25), and small flashes close to the subject. This let me use apertures that weren't too small. The loss of Kodachrome processing was a severe blow.

In your situation, Peter, with maximum sync speed 1/30, turning the ambient down as has been suggested above will help too. Do the arithmetic and you should be able to find a combination of film speed, flash power (guide number arithmetic works, but use a flash meter to calibrate your flashes), and flash-to-subject distance that will let you shoot at the apertures you want. If your concerned about lighting the background, well, when shooting in the studio using separate flashes for the subject and background (think in terms of depth of illumination) is easy. In the field, not so easy.

Rapidly moving subjects can be difficult. I have many shorts of unconstrained fish in aquaria that are much more poorly composed than I intended. Like your bird shots, tails ...

 

[mshchem]

This may sound counterintuitive, but one way to eliminate ambient light's effect on exposure is to use slow film or an ND filter and flash powerful enough to overpower ambient completely. I used to shoot flower out-of-doors with a Nikon FM2n (sync speed 1/250), KM (ISO 25), and small flashes close to the subject. This let me use apertures that weren't too small. The loss of Kodachrome processing was a severe blow.

In your situation, Peter, with maximum sync speed 1/30, turning the ambient down as has been suggested above will help too. Do the arithmetic and you should be able to find a combination of film speed, flash power (guide number arithmetic works, but use a flash meter to calibrate your flashes), and flash-to-subject distance that will let you shoot at the apertures you want. If your concerned about lighting the background, well, when shooting in the studio using separate flashes for the subject and background (think in terms of depth of illumination) is easy. In the field, not so easy.

Rapidly moving subjects can be difficult. I have many shorts of unconstrained fish in aquaria that are much more poorly composed than I intended. Like your bird shots, tails ...

+1

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

This may sound counterintuitive, but one way to eliminate ambient light's effect on exposure is to use slow film or an ND filter and flash powerful enough to overpower ambient completely. I used to shoot flower out-of-doors with a Nikon FM2n (sync speed 1/250), KM (ISO 25), and small flashes close to the subject. This let me use apertures that weren't too small. The loss of Kodachrome processing was a severe blow.

In your situation, Peter, with maximum sync speed 1/30, turning the ambient down as has been suggested above will help too. Do the arithmetic and you should be able to find a combination of film speed, flash power (guide number arithmetic works, but use a flash meter to calibrate your flashes), and flash-to-subject distance that will let you shoot at the apertures you want. If your concerned about lighting the background, well, when shooting in the studio using separate flashes for the subject and background (think in terms of depth of illumination) is easy. In the field, not so easy.

Rapidly moving subjects can be difficult. I have many shorts of unconstrained fish in aquaria that are much more poorly composed than I intended. Like your bird shots, tails ...

Thanks Dan. Arithmetically it does make sense. Where I see a problem is that increasing flash power means a longer flash burst
and ghosting. My problem is the stubborn idea of trying to achieve better results with medium format in B&W, to print large copies.
For these cases, digital makes it much easier

www.exoticaesoterica.com/new-blog-1

 

[Dan Fromm]

Peter, hummingbirds are difficult. I'm sure there's a literature on photographing them with flash. There are certainly some lovely coffee table books of hummingbird pictures taken with specialized flashes. I've tried a little in the field, with little success. Feeders so the birds' locations could be predicted, flashes on tripods near the feeders, ...

 

[cjbecker]

I love the idea of the final result your going for, and I think you are already doing a pretty good job at it. I have many times used medium/large format for what most would use a smaller format for. It makes it a fun and rewarding journey. Are you mounting the camera on a tripod? If so, the delay in the leaf shutter would be easy to overcome with a few tries, learn how far you have to anticipate. For the flashes, you could add a few more flashes and get enough to over power ambient while still using the 1/64 or 1/128 for the fast flash duration. I would also add in some pocket wizards plus or plusII, (pretty cheap used now) to make the system easier to use. I think you are very close to getting the results you are looking for.

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

I love the idea of the final result your going for, and I think you are already doing a pretty good job at it. I have many times used medium/large format for what most would use a smaller format for. It makes it a fun and rewarding journey. Are you mounting the camera on a tripod? If so, the delay in the leaf shutter would be easy to overcome with a few tries, learn how far you have to anticipate. For the flashes, you could add a few more flashes and get enough to over power ambient while still using the 1/64 or 1/128 for the fast flash duration. I would also add in some pocket wizards plus or plusII, (pretty cheap used now) to make the system easier to use. I think you are very close to getting the results you are looking for.

Thank you. The idea of producing a big negative that can print a crisp, larger than life-sized hummingbird is a neat challenge.
I have done some wildlife in medium format and for this subject matter (hummingbirds) my next trial would be 8x10.,
but with more scenery. Something like this

 

[Dan Fromm]

Thinking of hummingbirds, Peter, are you familiar with Crawford Greenewalt's work?

And, thinking of fish, do you know H. J. Richter's work? He was especially good in arranging tanks so that his subjects would choose to perform front and center, where they were relatively easy to photography. I believe he shot mainly 6x6 with Pentacon cameras. And do you know my late friend E. Roloff's work? His photography of pairs of fish, often anabantids, is unrivalled. He used an Exakta with a Steinheil macro lens. His pairs photography was done with quite small photo tanks. He didn't use the "squish" technique.

 

[Oren Grad]

Thanks Dan. Arithmetically it does make sense. Where I see a problem is that increasing flash power means a longer flash burst and ghosting. My problem is the stubborn idea of trying to achieve better results with medium format in B&W, to print large copies.
For these cases, digital makes it much easier

The problem is partly that the Pentax 67 isn't the best tool for the job and is making your life harder than it needs to be. It's not a good test of whether you can accomplish what you want with medium format film. If you're committed to 6x7 format and still want reflex viewing for convenience in setup, the Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 and the Bronica GS-1 are designed for and offer complete lines of leaf-shutter lenses.

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

Thinking of hummingbirds, Peter, are you familiar with Crawford Greenewalt's work?

And, thinking of fish, do you know H. J. Richter's work? He was especially good in arranging tanks so that his subjects would choose to perform front and center, where they were relatively easy to photography. I believe he shot mainly 6x6 with Pentacon cameras. And do you know my late friend E. Roloff's work? His photography of pairs of fish, often anabantids, is unrivalled. He used an Exakta with a Steinheil macro lens. His pairs photography was done with quite small photo tanks. He didn't use the "squish" technique.

Your late friend Roloff was a Killifish expert, to whom they dedicated the genus Roloffia ?
His images appeared very often in Ulrich Glasers wishlist of new species.
Are you a fishead too ? Photographing fish in Panama is not your usual photo trip motivation.
I had seen Greenewalt´s work, but didn´t know who the photographer was. Very clean work.
Thanks for the tips

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

The problem is partly that the Pentax 67 isn't the best tool for the job and is making your life harder than it needs to be. It's not a good test of whether you can accomplish what you want with medium format film. If you're committed to 6x7 format and still want reflex viewing for convenience in setup, the Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 and the Bronica GS-1 are designed for and offer complete lines of leaf-shutter lenses.

You are right. The 67II is not the best tool for the job, but if you have tried to photograph wildlife with medium format, I don´t know
if the Mamiya or Bronica are better suited. Yes, they have the leaf shutter advantage, but as allround option for wildlife they would
fall short. I have never used them or seen them being used for wildlife. It would be interesting to see if someone else has experience
with them. For this specific area, those cameras would probably make it easier for me.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Your late friend Roloff was a Killifish expert, to whom they dedicated the genus Roloffia ?
His images appeared very often in Ulrich Glasers wishlist of new species.
Are you a fishead too ? Photographing fish in Panama is not your usual photo trip motivation.
I had seen Greenewalt´s work, but didn´t know who the photographer was. Very clean work.
Thanks for the tips

Yes, that Roloff. In his later years he went to the far east and worked on anabantoids.

I wasn't in Panama to photograph fish, I was there to collect fish. My wife and I have donated preserved specimens to the Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia and to the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute in Panama. I was a visiting scientist at STRI, have a courtesy appointment at ANSP. We've been to other countries to collect fish. In no particular order, Jamaica, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Trinidad, Peru, Paraguay and Uruguay.

Am an aquarist and in a very small way an ichthyologist.

 

[Oren Grad]

You are right. The 67II is not the best tool for the job, but if you have tried to photograph wildlife with medium format, I don´t know if the Mamiya or Bronica are better suited. Yes, they have the leaf shutter advantage, but as allround option for wildlife they would fall short. I have never used them or seen them being used for wildlife. It would be interesting to see if someone else has experience with them. For this specific area, those cameras would probably make it easier for me.

Yes, many people have done excellent wildlife photography with a Pentax 67, and many prefer it to the Mamiyas and Bronica for that use. The problem is only with what you're trying to do here, which requires greater flexibility with flash exposures.

 

[Peter Rockstroh01]

Yes, that Roloff. In his later years he went to the far east and worked on anabantoids.

I wasn't in Panama to photograph fish, I was there to collect fish. My wife and I have donated preserved specimens to the Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia and to the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute in Panama. I was a visiting scientist at STRI, have a courtesy appointment at ANSP. We've been to other countries to collect fish. In no particular order, Jamaica, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Bahamas, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Trinidad, Peru, Paraguay and Uruguay.

Am an aquarist and in a very small way an ichthyologist.

Very interesting ! Would love to see photos of your fish and tanks and the material you collected

 

[yurihuta]

If hummingbirds are your quarry, have you considered the Fuji GX680 system? The lenses have electronic Seiko shutters syncing up to 1/500th. You can shoot 6x7 (up to 6x8) and have a wide range of lenses 50mm up to 500mm.