Pentax 67 Question

skahde said:

Also consider the Bronica GS-1. Within a year I build a complete outfit with two bodies, three backs and (except the build to order 500 mm) now have all focals I could wish for 50-250mm. First prints from the setup are already framed and on display and I really like the camera. I wont go into detail on a Pentax-thread but as you are considering alternatives I thought the big Bronica was worth mentioning.

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1+1=2 I have two MLU Pentax 67 cameras and just did exactly what you did. I have one Bronica GS-1, two backs 50mm, 110mm macro, 150mm and 250mm. I bought it just to see if I liked it or not and that I missed interchangeable backs a lot. I'm not taking anything away from my Pentax system, but the Bronica GS-1 is one heck of a systems camera at a very fair price on the used market. I know I also recommended to the OP the Mamiya RB67, but for me and my style shooting I wouldn't trade my GS-1 for even an RZ67. When I ad the radid wind handle pracketand AE prism finder to the GS-1 it is actually easier to use than the Pentax 67. Lens quality is a tossup between the two systems. There are many good medium format systems t chose from and at the price most of them are selling for you can try one and if you don't like it you can peddle it and try a different system. A word of caution on the last sentence and that's the word "peddle". You might just end up with two or three systems?

Start by getting a good battery and the battery holder.
Here's a printable one on thingiverse:
Probably many others available from the usual suspects.
Same goes for the owners manual. Butkus probably has one of those.

John Wiegerink said:

1+1=2 I have two MLU Pentax 67 cameras and just did exactly what you did.

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That means I also have to get a Pentax to round up the collection? Now that you mention it...

mshchem said:

I have definitely learned something about these cameras here today. I had always thought these were purely mechanical

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They are mostly mechanical until the first curtain opens, then the solenoid is responsible for letting the 2nd curtain go.

skahde said:

That means I also have to get a Pentax to round up the collection? Now that you mention it...

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By all means, don't be shy, step right up a grab a Pentax 67 while supplies last! Sounds like a used car salesman. One thing I do like about the Pentax is the lenses are non-electric and pretty bomb proof. The GS-1 has two chances for electronic failure. One is the lens itself and the other is the body.

Taylor Nankervis said:

Mirror lock-up is essential to separate shutter and mirror inertia that causes blur with these cameras; you may think handholding a 6x7 / 67 is easy and fun, but it will definitely introduce blur

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I will just repeat what i posted earlier here:


Years have passed and now I actually work (repair) those cameras. I discovered something very interesting...

Some Pentax 6x7 cameras (that ended on my hands) had much gentler mirror "slap".

Well, i've discovered that the mirror actuation force can actually be adjusted (!!). It is not easy to do, but it's doable nevertheless. I thus adjusted one 6x7 of mine for minimal mirror slap. It is remarkably gentle now.

The shutter vibration itself is extremely low (no matter what bs i've said before) and if it's not gentle then the shutter brakes would need adjustment, which would also manifest as other problems such as shutter bounce.

I will be working this year on creating a service document that thoroughly documents everything that the Pentax 6x7 service manual does not mention, and this will include mirror actuation force adjustment.

Finally, i did buy a wooden grip and it does cancel out much of the mirror slap. So, as you said Drew, Pentax "knew what they were doing". The huge wooden grip is a nice accessory, really

And, also, what I later posted here:

I feel there's too much misinformation regarding the Pentax 6x7 system. I have owned RB67 pro-S cameras (four) and Pentax 67 system cameras (three), and I am a camera tech, so perhaps I can be of some help.

Really, there are at least four or five Pentax 67 system cameras:

1. Early Pentax 6x7 camera without mirror lock up - 1969
1.1 Variation of this one, with some internal improvements
2. Pentax 6x7 Mirror Lock Up (MLU) camera - 1976
3. Pentax 67 camera - 1990. This one is "the same" camera as the previous one but internally very much improved.
4. Pentax 67II camera - 1999

This one is an entirely different camera and can't be compared or thrown in the same box as the other three.

Now, regarding the ones I had, which are #2 and #3, what I can say is the following:

- CURTAIN shock/slap is not too strong, no doubt thanks to the massive curtain braking system, which BTW was evolved on the early versions of the camera (1 to 1.1)

- Mirror shock/slap is depending on the following conditions:

a. The foams at the side of the mirror should be in fine shape (i've added even more padding just in case).

b. The FORCE for the mirror actuation can be calibrated by a camera tech (been there, done that!). This means that you can't generalize all 6x7/67 cameras!! For example my 6x7, after my recalibration, now shoots rather gently, while i couldnt recalibrate my 67 due to a screw that is very hard to unscrew, and it has significantly more force.

No doubt many 6x7/67 cameras that were serviced, disassembled by a tech, then were assembled by a tech that not necessarily took the care of calibrating mirror force for lowest slap (which would ALSO mean more risk of camera seizing if not periodically lubricated each 1 or 2 years...).

c. For practical purposes, using the wooden grip WILL make a big difference since it stabilizes the camera during the mirror up operation, as well as during the shutter operation.

THUS:

This explains why you can have on this forum, one person saying "I can't handhold the P6x7 at less than 1/125" while another saying "I can handhold the P6X7 at slow speeds with no problem at all".

It will depend on many variables!

John Wiegerink said:

By all means, don't be shy, step right up a grab a Pentax 67 while supplies last! Sounds like a used car salesman. One thing I do like about the Pentax is the lenses are non-electric and pretty bomb proof. The GS-1 has two chances for electronic failure. One is the lens itself and the other is the body.

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I'm a huge fan of the Bronica ETR series (see my profile pic). In fact i sold many of my other MF cameras -- rolleiflex, mamiya C330/220, RB67, and kept only the 6x7/67 and ETR-series cameras.

The Seiko lens shutters used on the GS1, ETR and SQ cameras are very, very reliable and any problem is often resolved with a very simple cleaning on the insides.

The electronics on the ETR and the SQ series are really bombproof. They have mechanical shutter release, like the Pentax 6x7 does. When any of these camera bodies don't operate properly, you can bet it's a mechanical problem, not electronic at all.

The GS1 adds an electronic shutter release and i've heard the solenoid might be problematic. But plenty of reliable electronic cameras have a similar solenoid to trip the shutter.

There's nothing to suggest the GS1 is an unreliable camera or less reliable than others. As any other camera, it should be judged only after proper servicing is done by a proper technician.

By the way, the Pentax 6x7 series should receive periodic service, once a year or once 2 years is good, to clean the inside and replace lubricants.

John Wiegerink said:

One thing I do like about the Pentax is the lenses are non-electric and pretty bomb proof. The GS-1 has two chances for electronic failure. One is the lens itself and the other is the body.

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In this respect I changed my mind since I learned that being mechanical doesn't help a bit if there is nobody daring to touch the camera in question or parts are needed which aren't available any more. E.g. owning a Leica M5 may not be better than a M7 depending on the defect it developes. The question i ask myself changed to: How much do I have to invest to get going again? Since prices have gone down considerably, this includes simply replacing a non-working piece for another, working one. The latter is my solution for the Bronica and as there are very low numbers of "for parts" GS-1 and lenses on offer in relation to the total offering I see little reason to be pessimistic about the lenses and bodies I have.

skahde said:

In this respect I changed my mind since I learned that being mechanical doesn't help a bit if there is nobody daring to touch the camera in question or parts are needed which aren't available any more. E.g. owning a Leica M5 may not be better than a M7 depending on the defect it developes. The question i ask myself changed to: How much do I have to invest to get going again? Since prices have gone down considerably, this includes simply replacing a non-working piece for another, working one. The latter is my solution for the Bronica and as there are very low numbers of "for parts" GS-1 and lenses on offer in relation to the total offering I see little reason to be pessimistic about the lenses and bodies I have.

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Camera repairman here.

You are correct.

I prefer Bronica ETR lenses ("electronic" shutters) than for example Mamiya RB67 lenses (mechanical shutters).

The shutter inside the ETR lenses is mechanic and has only electric components: switches, solenoids. Due to no need for inertial geartrains, etc, it is mechanically simpler, and thus, MORE RELIABLE (emphasis intentional).

Only thing that really can go wrong, besides lack of CLA, is the flex connector that interfaces between the shutter and the lens mount. But this one can eventually be replaced with a donor, or patched with jumper wires.

John Wiegerink said:

I have owned both a RB67 and still own two Pentax 67's so have some idea what you are going through right now. While I really like the RB67 I decided to part with it and keep the Pentax since it fit "MY" style of shooting better. In your first sentence above I'd say buy the RB67 Pro S. Landscapes on a tripod? The RB67 is made for that and many other things too. The main thing I missed by going with the Pentax 67 was interchangeable backs. With the RB67 system you can shoot color negative, transparency and B&W with just one camera. Lens quality between the two is not a problem since both have top notch glass. Also, both have an extensive line of accessories to go with each. One thing the RB67 has going for it right now is the body itself is dirt cheap. I'm with you when it comes to negative size, bigger is better!

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RB67 Pro S on the way with a prism finder and 180mm lens. I’ll get a wider lens and second film back later on, and I think you can get 6x9 backs as well.

DannyC71 said:

RB67 Pro S on the way with a prism finder and 180mm lens. I’ll get a wider lens and second film back later on, and I think you can get 6x9 backs as well.

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You can't get 6x9 from it. The RB67 pro-S is a 6x7 (5.6cm by 6.8cm) camera, which under certain conditions can achieve 5.6x7.5cm format

See here:

DannyC71 said:

RB67 Pro S on the way with a prism finder and 180mm lens. I’ll get a wider lens and second film back later on, and I think you can get 6x9 backs as well.

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Hope you're a young husky lad cuz you'll need it to lug that baby around. Actually the RB67 isn't that5bad, but it is bulky and I think that's why people comment on it being a heavy, awkward beast that weighs too much. Of course many of the folks here saying that probably never really used one. Have fun and let us know what you think of it.

John Wiegerink said:

Hope you're a young husky lad cuz you'll need it to lug that baby around. Actually the RB67 isn't that5bad, but it is bulky and I think that's why people comment on it being a heavy, awkward beast that weighs too much. Of course many of the folks here saying that probably never really used one. Have fun and let us know what you think of it.

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I just showed up today and yes it is a beast, and it seems to be the prism finder that really adds on. I have to wait for the rotating adapter to get here still.

Starting a new thread since this one was about a Pentax.