Paying for Features

[xkaes]

Correction: But my goodness, have you ever owned a Jeep? Just Empty Every Pocket

That's why I own a 1991 Suzuki Sidekick and a 1976 Honda Civic. The only things I've had to replace are tires, shocks, spark plugs and batteries. OH, and one headlight and a couple of girlfriends.

 

[KerrKid]

Correction: But my goodness, have you ever owned a Jeep? Just Empty Every Pocket

Bwahaha. For sure. Not to highjack this thread, but my ex's Jeep - beautiful Jeep, really - became useless because she couldn't get some computer part for it. Sold it for a fraction of what we paid for it and the guy parted it out. How disgusting is that?

 

[KerrKid]

That's why I own a 1991 Suzuki Sidekick and a 1976 Honda Civic. The only things I've had to replace are tires, shocks, spark plugs and batteries. OH, and one headlight and a couple of girlfriends.

That's funny. And good choices. I bet it's weird not having someone tell you how to drive.

I'm not a Luddite (much) but I want a car or truck with manual everything. I hate all this computer crap and being held hostage by it. I regret selling my '89 Ford F-150 beater before moving to Texas, although it did have fi instead of a carb.

 

[koraks]

As I said, that's my experience and yours sounds different.

Yes, it is. I see where you're coming from, and I'm not disqualifying your experience in any way. Mine is indeed different; it's a different perspective and probably involves a different (albeit rather diverse) subset of products and technologies. Conceptually the underpinnings are always similar or identical, though.

I'm sorry about your unfortunate experiences with door handles. I remember that happening when my dad in one of his characteristic lapses of reason bought a Soviet produced Lada car back in the mid-1980s. Well, the world certainly was a different place back then.

 

[cliveh]

Is it possible to pay for a reduction of features?

 

[KerrKid]

Yes, it is. I see where you're coming from, and I'm not disqualifying your experience in any way. Mine is indeed different; it's a different perspective and probably involves a different (albeit rather diverse) subset of products and technologies. Conceptually the underpinnings are always similar or identical, though.

I'm sorry about your unfortunate experiences with door handles. I remember that happening when my dad in one of his characteristic lapses of reason bought a Soviet produced Lada car back in the mid-1980s. Well, the world certainly was a different place back then.

Just think what would happen if we both grabbed an elephant in the dark.) I appreciate your perspective in that it helps balance out mine. Thanks!

A Lada. That's too funny. My dad almost bought a pair of Ford Fiesta's when they came out. I dodged a bullet with that one. I bought a Ford Pinto instead

 

[KerrKid]

Is it possible to pay for a reduction of features?

Yes, it's called bus fare.

 

[MattKing]

Is it possible to pay for a reduction of features?

Sure - buy a Leica film rangefinder .
Any modern product that is designed for long term reliability will be far more expensive than competitive products and will have far fewer features - thus in most cases ensuring little or no sales.
You can rarely see durability when you look at something on the internet or the sales floor. And even if you can, the majority of potential purchasers are unwilling to value it very highly.

 

[VinceInMT]

I bought a Ford Pinto instead

And since you are still here, you didn’t get rear ended in it.

Another side of this issue is the ability to repair today’s stuff. Some of it has become so complex that standard mechanical and electrical skills no longer apply. Then there is, I think or at least IMO, a decline in people wanting to DIY. This is even seen in the housing market. A generation ago, when buying a house, one looked for the worse house in the best neighborhood and planned to put in lots of elbow grease. Now, my real estate friends tell me, it’s hard to move a house that hasn’t been totally fixed up, all new appliances, etc.

Perhaps this is just a sign of things in a rich society where inconveniences like a delayed flight creates so much personal angst.

 

[KerrKid]

And since you are still here, you didn’t get rear ended in it.

Another side of this issue is the ability to repair today’s stuff. Some of it has become so complex that standard mechanical and electrical skills no longer apply. Then there is, I think or at least IMO, a decline in people wanting to DIY. This is even seen in the housing market. A generation ago, when buying a house, one looked for the worse house in the best neighborhood and planned to put in lots of elbow grease. Now, my real estate friends tell me, it’s hard to move a house that hasn’t been totally fixed up, all new appliances, etc.

Perhaps this is just a sign of things in a rich society where inconveniences like a delayed flight creates so much personal angst.

But I did rearend a bridge and totaled it. Had nothing to do with drugs and alcohol. Honest.

 

[VinceInMT]

But I did rearend a bridge and totaled it. Had nothing to do with drugs and alcohol. Honest.

I hear you. It’s not that uncommon for bridges to attack small cars.

 

[KerrKid]

I hear you. It’s not that uncommon for bridges to attack small cars.

And they always seem to win.

 

[VinceInMT]

And they always seem to win.

I hope it wasn’t a toll bridge. That would just add more misery.

 

[KerrKid]

I hope it wasn’t a toll bridge. That would just add more misery.

Well, it definitely did take a toll! Lol.

 

[MattKing]

But I did rearend a bridge and totaled it. Had nothing to do with drugs and alcohol. Honest.

I didn't know bridges had a rear end

 

[KerrKid]

I didn't know bridges had a rear end

The bridge was facing away from me when I hit it. Im almost sure of it.

 

[VinceInMT]

Back to the subscription thing, I think that the public will accept this, readily. They are already softened up by the multitude of services they already subscribe to: Internet access, online newspapers, TV streaming services, music streaming, the phone and all that goes with that, and even their doorbells.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Back to the subscription thing, I think that the public will accept this, readily. They are already softened up by the multitude of services they already subscribe to: Internet access, online newspapers, TV streaming services, music streaming, the phone and all that goes with that, and even their doorbells.

I cut the newpaper fees, put up a TV antenna so no cable fees, no music streaming fees. I am against subscriptions which are the vampires of checking accounts and money.

 

[reddesert]

There is an ancient piece of computer folklore about an IBM mainframe where if the customer paid for a speed upgrade, the field engineer would come out and cut a jumper wire, enabling the higher speed. It's probably apocryphal but based on some reality, which is that companies need to sell at different price points, and sometimes selling similar hardware at different prices might be more economical than building different hardware.

I don't think customers will swallow subscriptions to use hardware that easily, though. People subscribe to services, but many still have an idea that if you buy a thing you own the thing and the right to use it. There are printer companies that sell subscription ink - you buy the right to print N pages a month. But, everybody hates printer companies and their business model reliance on proprietary hardware and ink.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There is an ancient piece of computer folklore about an IBM mainframe where if the customer paid for a speed upgrade, the field engineer would come out and cut a jumper wire, enabling the higher speed. It's probably apocryphal but based on some reality, which is that companies need to sell at different price points, and sometimes selling similar hardware at different prices might be more economical than building different hardware.

I don't think customers will swallow subscriptions to use hardware that easily, though. People subscribe to services, but many still have an idea that if you buy a thing you own the thing and the right to use it. There are printer companies that sell subscription ink - you buy the right to print N pages a month. But, everybody hates printer companies and their business model reliance on proprietary hardware and ink.

This it true. When I was working for Hughes Aircraft on one of two of the last IBM 7094s. My job was to figure out how to get the software to run 50% faster. I was studying the code loops to see where most or the time was being spent. I got bored and started comparing the drawings of the difference between the version I was working on and the next model up which was twice as fast. I discovered that the only difference was one board with the timing circuits. When I compared the schematics the only difference was one jumper wire. I talked to my boss and suggested that we tell the other users that at a specified time and date that we would cut the jumper wire and they were to let us know if there were any problems. My boss said not to do that because then we would be blamed for every problem that ever occurred anywhere in the world and to just cut the wire. I cut the wire and the computer and the software I was working on ran twice as fast. No other group complained and so we cut the jumper wire in the remaining 7094 that the Navy was using. I reported to the Navy that the software ran twice as fast instead of 50% faster, and I had done the job under budget and ahead of schedule. The Navy was so happy that they cancelled the services of the other contractors and gave my group all their work on that computer, thus making my group the sole source provider. My boss was very happy.

 

[KerrKid]

This it true. When I was working for Hughes Aircraft on one of two of the last IBM 7094s. My job was to figure out how to get the software to run 50% faster. I was studying the code loops to see where most or the time was being spent. I got bored and started comparing the drawings of the difference between the version I was working on and the next model up which was twice as fast. I discovered that the only difference was one board with the timing circuits. When I compared the schematics the only difference was one jumper wire. I talked to my boss and suggested that we tell the other users that at a specified time and date that we would cut the jumper wire and they were to let us know if there were any problems. My boss said not to do that because then we would be blamed for every problem that ever occurred anywhere in the world and to just cut the wire. I cut the wire and the computer and the software I was working on ran twice as fast. No other group complained and so we cut the jumper wire in the remaining 7094 that the Navy was using. I reported to the Navy that the software ran twice as fast instead of 50% faster, and I had done the job under budget and ahead of schedule. The Navy was so happy that they cancelled the services of the other contractors and gave my group all their work on that computer, thus making my group the sole source provider. My boss was very happy.

I envision you sweating profusely with a counter showing seconds to go while the theme to Mission Impossible plays in the background.

 

[jvo]

That's why I own a 1991 Suzuki Sidekick .......

ah, but suzuki does have a computer in it! I had to replace mine. I owned a '94 sidekick and loved it... didn't burn a drop of oil. 325k miles when the speedometer broke, ran it for 3 more years before it sold at auction for $1700 in 2018.

I see the subscription model as an incremental process, (airlines?) - the auto dealer, "the tires, steering wheel and seatbelt package is only $29 a month - 1st month free!"

 

[VinceInMT]

…I see the subscription model as an incremental process, (airlines?) - auto dealer, "the tires, steering wheel and seatbelt package is only $29 a month."

Yes, the “Boiling Frog” metaphor applies.

 

[George Mann]

How about a Chevrolet HHR and the door handles that break? They all do. How about the door handle on my Nissan Rogue that just cracked in half? Gad.

Even Toyota uses these crappy door handles!

 

[KerrKid]

Even Toyota uses these crappy door handles!

Maybe they're softening us up for requiring us to pay more for handles that work. You know, the crappy handles that break are the standard ones. If you want them to last, you have to pay extra for the LX super deluxe trim package that also includes all the things you don't want like embroidered logos on the seat backs.

I do believe that marine outboard manufacturers play the same sort of paying for features game with hp ratings. You can get two identical outboards but one has more hp and costs more. An engine map is probably all that separates the two since when you look at the specs the additional hp is gained with additional RPM.

The advent of computer-controlled things has just made it easier for the scoundrels to make money.