Parodinal monkeyshines

ElrodCod · Sep 25, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
This formula (parodinal) is basically a curiousity and not something that you would want to use for any serious negatives. If you are interested in mixing your own developers then I suggest getting the two Anchell books. They contain a lot of practical formulas and explain some photographic chemistry.

Define "serious" and "practical". I wonder if Daguerre, Niepce, Fox Talbot, et al, were ever admonished for using their homemade processes for their "serious" work? I wonder who's book they used? Their processes were the curiosities of their time and all such curiosities are the stuff that photographic history, and photography itself for that matter, are made of.
Whatever works is practical....curiosity or not. Parodinal works.

Gerald Koch · Sep 25, 2006

ElrodCod said:
Define "serious" and "practical". I wonder if Daguerre, Niepce, Fox Talbot, et al, were ever admonished for using their homemade processes for their "serious" work? I wonder who's book they used? Their processes were the curiosities of their time and all such curiosities are the stuff that photographic history, and photography itself for that matter, are made of.
Whatever works is practical....curiosity or not. Parodinal works.

I am glad that you are happy with it.

paulgray · May 28, 2007

Gerald Koch said:
I am glad that you are happy with it.

As we all should be to describe it as not serious is to minimize the art of the craft.

gainer · May 29, 2007

It is as easy for me to get p-aminophenol as it is to get lye. The problem is that I need the hydroxide to make Rodinal in any case. I can make caustic soda from sodium carbonate and slaked lime, which should be available in any rural community, but there are disadvantages to that also. Tylenol is a cousin of p-aminophenol. It would be nice to be able to separate the p-aminophenol from it without hydroxide. A combination of p-aminophenol, sodium ascorbate and borax makes a quite potent developer. If you can't find sodium ascorbate, you can make it with ascorbic acid and baking soda. Borax is available most places and should not be considered as hazardous from the designer drug standpoint. 3 or 4 grams of p-aminophenol, 8 or 9 grams of sodium ascorbate, and about 4 grams of borax in a liter of water will develop HP5+ in 8 minutes to normal contrast. Is it a serious developer? When you learn to use it, it will be, you can bet your boots.

Murray Kelly · Jun 3, 2007

The Rodinal sold in Australia has an extra stick-on label warning that it contains 41G/L of NaOH. This doesn't seem to tie in with any formulas I have seen published.
If one uses Panadol (p-aminophenol) I wonder if capsules broken open would be a better source than tablets? There would possibly be less added (tableting) compounds in the powder. Reports say it doesn't matter but that's the way I would go, here, in Oz
Murray

gainer · Jun 3, 2007

That seems very high. That would be about 10 molecular weights, enough to form the sodium paraminophenolate out of almost 500 grams of p-aminophenol.HCl. Half would go into making salt out of the HCL part. I think it's about 10X the actual value.

Can we even get the capsules in the US?

Anscojohn · Jun 3, 2007

substitutions

eli griggs said:
Gerald Koch wrote:

Are there any charts of equivalent ingredients to refer to or online sources or computers that can helpful or is there any opensource software that can help the novice with his/her experiments?

*****
Gerald,
I can scan a neat little chart from an old Ilford encyclopedia of photography which gives quantities for substitutions. Send me an email address to JayKHill@aol.com.

Anscojohn, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

eli griggs · Jun 3, 2007

Anscojohn, I'd be interested in that chart, if you please. I'll shoot you my email just in case you say yes.

Cheers, Eli

gainer · Jun 3, 2007

gainer said:
That seems very high. That would be about 10 molecular weights, enough to form the sodium paraminophenolate out of almost 500 grams of p-aminophenol.HCl. Half would go into making salt out of the HCL part. I think it's about 10X the actual value.

Can we even get the capsules in the US?

My brain slipped a cog. 41 grams of sodium hydroxide would make the phenolate out of about 50 grams of p-aminophenol.HCl in real Rodinal. When you are using Panadol, you need about the same NaOH but are working from the other end, so to speak. Half of it goes to separate the acetyl thing from the acetaminophen making sodium acetate and the other half goes to make the sodium (or potassium if you use KOH) paraminophenolate, which is how so much of the p-aminophenol part can be dissolved in Rodinal.

In either case, the NaOH or KOH that went into the Rodinal is not ordinarilly available as such, but you wouldn't want to drink it and under some circumstances the Rodinal stock might be quite caustic.

Murray Kelly · Jun 4, 2007

Patrick, I have a cofession to make.

I went back and rechecked that sticker - it is KOH not
NaOH and that 41 g /l is almost spot on to your
E-Z Rodinal. Sorry for that.

Miles off PFormulary and any other formulae I've seen, tho.
Can't work that out at all. Maybe it's the free KOH after
reacting with the p-aminophenol? Shrug.

I cannot speak for the US but Panadol (acetaminophen)
is available here in capsules. In a bubble pack of course.
There's little filler or binder in caps, usually.

Murray Kelly

k_jupiter · Jun 4, 2007

Gerald Koch said:
I am glad that you are happy with it.

Ya know Gerald.. I agree to a point. I like using the correct chemicals. I like making PanThermic 777 from the correct chemicals...

But I also invested heavily in 3x4 cameras, knowing I had a stable source of film, knowing I like the format. J&C. I have about 75 more images to take with my 3x4 rb, my 3x4 Speed, and my Kalart press. Then what?

So I now have a bottle of lye (not easy to find in California), a bottle of Tylenol clone, and all the rest of the recipe given by DQ. It sits waiting for me to need to develop film and there is no Rodinal around.

Always be prepared.

I guess the short story is... chill. Get out of your ivory tower and accept that this is a legitimate developer. You don't have to use it as long as you have an alternative.

tim in san jose

ZorkiKat · Jun 5, 2007

Substituting Metabisulphite for Sulphite...

...It WON'T work. Using bisulphite alone (in quantities given for sulphite) makes the solution acidic or even neutral- or at least an impression of it. Even without a PH meter on hand, it's easy to see/feel that the resulting solution was no longer basic as developers would have it. The bisulphite appears to have neutralised the solution, even with the amount of lye which went into it.

Parodinal monkeyshines

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