Paper Developer

[CMoore]

Ok but these are film developers. I thought you were asking about paper developers.

Yeah...my OP was about Two Specific Paper Developers. But as always happens, as posts progress, different topics come up.
Somebody mentioned different bottle caps and storage times. So we got some cap info.
It does not matter what the developer is used for. I was wondering, because i have a box of ID-11, about how well a powder developer keeps compared to a liquid developer like Liquidol or Rodinal.
I had let the ID-11 sit because i can make Rodinal as i need it.
Same for Liquidol Vs something like Bromophen.
How fast do the powders go off, once they are mixed.............

 

[Svenedin]

Broadly speaking the powders are mixed to make a "stock strength" solution which is then diluted when needed to make a "working strength" solution. The stock solutions should keep for approximately as long as a bottle of liquid concentrate developer. Working strength solutions generally have short lives. The sealed bags of powder keep for ages but you have to mix the whole bag up at once -you cannot mix up half of it as the powder is a mixture of different chemicals and if you just weighed up half of it you may not have the chemicals in the correct proportion in that half. Rodinal is a bit of a special case and has legendary keeping qualities.

 

[CMoore]

All great info...Thank You
Like i say, the ID-11 was just kind of a side issue that Matt was......."guiding" me through.
For the cost, and with how much i would use and how fast...It is probably just as well for me to go "Stock" with the ID-11 and use it One Shot
Thanks Again

 

[MattKing]

You may prefer the results of using ID-11 diluted 1+1 "One Shot".
Or even diluted 1+3 .
Or not - it is up to you.
The increased dilutions end up being more economical.
If you are going to dilute the stock, make sure you use a big enough developing tank. You need at least 100 ml of "stock" for each roll, so if you are using 1+3, you shouldn't use a tank that is smaller than 400 ml (100 ml of stock plus 300 ml of water).

 

[CMoore]

Oh Wow.....Thank You for telling me that.
I had no idea, though i suppose it IS Mentioned somewhere in the directions.
I guess i could start out at 1:1 as long as the develop time and tank size is OK.
My main reason for going stock was, though it is not as economical.....I thought the 5 Liter box would probably be around for 3-6 Months, which falls right into the recommended time by Ilford.

There are probably guys that go way longer with good affect. But with my summertime darkroom temps and inexperience, i thought i should probably just stick to the Ilford Directions to start.

 

[M Carter]

Liquidol has a long shelf life but not infinite. When it is good it is clear or even yellow. The time to worry is when crystals form. This indicates that the oxygen has begun to turn the Sulfite into Sulfate and it begins to precipitate. Even then if it is not dark brown, the developer will still work, albeit with some slight loss in capacity and tray life.

PE

I got to the end of a bottle of Liquidol and a big crystal tumbled out. Thing is, I love that developer so much, I wanted to have it mounted to, like, a pinky ring. I'd be soooo gangsta with that!!!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Thanks very much!

 

[CMoore]

I suppose that many of you guys that have answers for my questions, earned those answers by trial and error.

So i took the plunge and bought 5 Liters of PF Liquidol.
It IS a pretty big savings. I already have lots of Brown Bottles, and i ordered those Cone Caps.
So i will cut the 5 Liters down to smaller bottles and see what happens in the next 6-12 months.
Maybe i will be able to help the next guy that asks.......

 

[Photo Engineer]

You don't need to split the concentrate up! It is fine as-is!

PE

 

[CMoore]

You don't need to split the concentrate up! It is fine as-is!

PE

Thanks For The Info.!
Nice to know i am in within your shelf-life.

But one other thing with the bigger containers, it gets hard to pour from them until they get down a ways. If i pour into 5 smaller bottles, it makes it easier for me to use......basically making enough for a 12x14 tray.
PLUS.....it makes it look like i know what i am doing.
When friends come over and i have several bottles, with Nomenclature written on blue tape, and stuck to The Brown Bottles.....it IS kind of an impressive sight.

 

[MattKing]

You should get PE to autograph your Liquidol!

 

[mshchem]

consider mixing your own D72 from bulk chemicals and avoid a lot of the problems above.That way, You always have fresh processing solutions.

I've been using Bromophen for the last few years. However I do enjoy "compounding " my own chemistries. I've got all the old books, and of course the darkroom cookbooks. I had fun playing around with various glycin (Monozol, Athenon,) print developers when I was much younger.

I've always loved the chemistry part of photography. I remember when you went to a Pharmacy (Chemist) for photo supplies. When my Dad was in Pharmacy college in the late 30s, early 40s, the College of Pharmacy made all the Xray developers, and other solutions for the State Hospitals and clinics.

You don't need much to be able to try a lot of different formulas. Of course D-72 (Dektol ) and D-76 have been around for decades, still work great.
Best Regards Mike

 

[CMoore]

What is the story between D-72 Vs D-76.?
I have noticed other threads where guys have recommended D-72.
Is it "easier" to make, or are the Chemicals more affordable or something.?
Thank You

 

[MattKing]

Don't get confused!
The numerous developer formulas are just that - formulas for developer that have a "D" in the name assigned to them (primarily by Kodak).
There is no particular logic to how the designations were assigned.
D-72 is essentially the same as the packaged developer Dektol. Dektol is usually used to develop prints.
D-76 happens to have retained its "D" designation as a packaged developer, rather than acquiring an additional trade name. D-76 is usually used to develop films.
The packaged developers tend to have additional ingredients in them that assist with keeping qualities and ensuring dependable results when dealing with varying water qualities - the sorts of things that matter when distributing chemicals to end users. The original formulas - like D-72 - generally avoid those additional ingredients, because they are made up just before use.
If you have good sources for the constituent chemicals, and equipment like accurate measures and scales as well as a modicum of mixing skill, many of the commonly used chemicals are fairly easy to put together, and it is possible to both save some money and mix "only what you need".
It can also be quite rewarding to customize what you use.

 

[CMoore]

Ah...OK.
I might have one of the "Cook Book" type of books. I will 2x check and see what they say.
Thanks

 

[Photo Engineer]

When you pour concentrate into smaller bottles, you aerate the solution and shorten its shelf life.

PE

 

[CMoore]

When you pour concentrate into smaller bottles, you aerate the solution and shorten its shelf life.

PE

Oh, OK.....i sure would have thought different.
With a 5 Liter jug, and just me using trays, I will be Opening...Pouring... Agitating...Closing, that one jug a bunch of times.......

Obviously, i should have Bought TWO 5 Liter Jugs and run an experiment.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If you are careful, it is opening, pouring and closing! You can also use nitrogen to fill the container(s).

PE

 

[darkroommike]

For those of you that use something like D-76.....once you make it, and store it in bottles as best you can, how long will it last.?
Does it store as well as something like Liqidol or the other Liquid Concentrates.?
Thank You

By the book? A full bottle of D-76 will last 6 months, a partially full bottle 2 months. I mix a US gallon at a time and then put it into 4 bottles the first three I fill almost to the top, leaving just a little space, the fourth is the bottle I use up first. Brown bottles with polycone seals, etc. I think the storage life is very conservative but so far have not had issue with using it up "on schedule".

 

[CMoore]

Yeah.....i have two different size of those Brown Bottles. (are they called "Boston" for some reason.?)
I ordered several of those caps from Fillmore Container.
So i should be set to get started in the near future.
Thank YOU.....
Ilford
Photographers Formulary
and the good members of APUG

 

[darkroommike]

Yeah.....i have two different size of those Brown Bottles. (are they called "Boston" for some reason.?)
...
and the good members of APUG

It's a specific pattern bottle which I suspect originated with the Boston Glass Bottle Manufactory.

 

[tonyowen]

I'm not certain if I'm on the right thread however:-
I use Ilford PQ Universal for paper negatives which at 1:9 requires 1m 30s development time with a Jobo tank.
Does anyone know, or have any options, about reducing the concentration to give a longer development time?
I'm assuming that a much longer (say 3m or 6m) development time might enhance the quality of the processed paper negative.
Therefore, can/do I assume that development time is proportional to the ratio of the standard dilution to another dilution?
Yes I could experiment, but maybe the testing has already been done by a.n.other
regards
Tony

 

[Svenedin]

It's a specific pattern bottle which I suspect originated with the Boston Glass Bottle Manufactory.

The are called "Winchesters" in the U.K.