Pan F Plus Processed In Rodinal Instead Of D76 - Any Differences?

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DF

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'Would like to try a hand at processing PanF+ in Rodinal for the first time instead of D76 - which almost always gives me dismal results, however, never a problem with FP4.
Any recommendations for timing/dilutions?
 

chriscrawfordphoto

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Pan-F in Rodinal is beautiful. I expose it at EI-50 and develop in Rodinal 1+50 for 11 minutes at 68 degrees (20C). If I remember right, this is the time Ilford gives.

You should check Ilford's website, they have very detail tech info sheets on there that give times for their films in Ilford's own developers AND many non-Ilford developers, including Rodinal, D-76, Tmax Developer, and HC-110. I have found their times to be perfect in most cases.

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These were both shot on 35mm Pan-F, developed in Rodinal. The second one, because of the very high-contrast light, was shot at EI-25 and developed for 7.5 minutes at 68 degrees (20C). In Zone System terms, this is N-1 developing, to reduce contrast.

The first one was shot at EI-50 and developed for the normal time.
 

pentaxuser

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Have a look at the Massive Development Chart. There is a whole range of Pan F+ and Rodinal times for different dilutions and speeds.

However as you had "dismal " results with a developer like D76 I fear that this may have had something to do with the processing. Can you define dismal and show examples of the dismal negs to see if we can help discover the problems. There are no magic bullet combination of specific films and developers

When I first started with B&W photography I had great results with Pan F+ and ID11( D76 equivalent) simply by following the Ilford instructions

pentaxuser
 

cbella

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I'd agree that it would be odd to go from 'dismal to wonderful' simply by changing from D76 to Rodinal, without changing other factors. I've generally found that different developers will (de-)emphasize nuances that may make a negative more or less appealing, but not to so dramatic an extent. FWIW, my own experience with Pan F+ is that I very much prefer the results when overexposed by a stop - shot at 25 but developed as if shot at 50.
 

Lachlan Young

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If you're getting bad results with D-76 & Pan-F, it's not a problem with the developer or the film. More than likely you are underexposing & grossly overdeveloping. Try Ilford's recommended times for an EI of 25 at 1+1 dilution as a starting point. If your technique is halfway competent, changing developer is likely to make less of a difference than working out your effective film speed for the shadow detail you want & a processing time which gives you the highlight density you need.
 

cbella

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Yep, if by dismal, you mean poor shadow detail and excessive contrast (my early experience w Pan F + in D-76), the solution, as mentioned several times above, was to increase exposure and decrease development time. I was already using 1:1 dilution. I went from not liking the look of that film very much to finding it very appealing.
 

cbella

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If you're getting bad results with D-76 & Pan-F, it's not a problem with the developer or the film. More than likely you are underexposing & grossly overdeveloping. Try Ilford's recommended times for an EI of 25 at 1+1 dilution as a starting point. If your technique is halfway competent, changing developer is likely to make less of a difference than working out your effective film speed for the shadow detail you want & a processing time which gives you the highlight density you need.
 

glbeas

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Last time I shot Pan F I used semi stand 1:100 in Rodinal and found EI 50 was good and shadow detail was pretty good (looking at detail in shadows under a car) Cant remember what the times were but I got the details off the massive developing chart.
 

John Wiegerink

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Some folks don't think stand or semi-stand development is worth the time, but I have gotten excellent results using Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand for 1hr. to process PanF+ 120. I pre-soak for 2 min. then dump, add Rodinal 1+100 and agitate for 1 min., then let stand in a slow running water bath for 30 min., at the 30 min. mark I do three inversions slowly and then let set for the duration of 30 more minutes. All done at 68F. Rinse in water for stop and fix in my normal TF2 fixer. I rate my PanF+ at EI/ISO of 32. For me it seems to hold the highlights fairly well and is sharp enough with nearly invisible grain. I really like it, but it is a little time consuming. JohnW
 

pentaxuser

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then let stand in a slow running water bath for 30 min., at the 30 min. mark I do three inversions slowly and then let set for the duration of 30 more minutes. JohnW

Is the slow running bath to maintain the 68F temp of the developer? What might it rise to otherwise in 60 mins? Over the course of an hour and at the dilution used, I wonder how much a rise in temperature that is typical of your location( presumably in the summer months only) would affect the outcome?

pentaxuser
 

John Wiegerink

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Is the slow running bath to maintain the 68F temp of the developer? What might it rise to otherwise in 60 mins? Over the course of an hour and at the dilution used, I wonder how much a rise in temperature that is typical of your location( presumably in the summer months only) would affect the outcome?

pentaxuser
Yes, it's just to maintain as close to 68F as possible. With my darkroom the temp fluctuates according to the time of day. In summer months it's cool in the morning and pretty darn warm in the lat afternoon and evening hours. Winter months it is usually cool most of the time. I have a Leedal mixer valve that lets me target a set temp pretty much where I want. Also, water is of no expense where I'm at, but that's not true for many folks on this site. I could probably get by just fine with a large container/tub of water at 68f without a running flow, but like I said, for me water is of no real cost. JohnW
 

takilmaboxer

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Pan F is a fine grained film. Rodinol is a grainy developer. What's the point?
I shot only Panatomic for many years. I used Microdol to get the finest grain possible. It worked very well, and today, I find that D76 and D23 work great with Pan F. It's a demanding film; your technique must be spot on.
 

John Wiegerink

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Well, to be honest, I don't consider Rodinal a grainy developer. Rodinal just doesn't attack the silver halides like Microdol-X/Perceptol or D-23/D-76 does and create a softer mushier output. Actually, the combination, Rodinal and PanF+ compliment each other very nicely. JohnW
 

RalphLambrecht

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'Would like to try a hand at processing PanF+ in Rodinal for the first time instead of D76 - which almost always gives me dismal results, however, never a problem with FP4.
Any recommendations for timing/dilutions?
I'm surprised by you getting dismal results with D76; It's typically a great all-round developer for all films.What's your EI for PanF+?
 

takilmaboxer

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John, you're absolutely right:Rodinol is not intrinsically grainy, it's just honest. Whatever grain the film has, that's what you see, because it's not being softened at all. With 120 film the negatives show amazing acutance. But I generally prefer a smoother tonality. Like 4X5 Agfa 25 in D76 (another old favorite) or even Efke 25. Too bad nobody makes these films in 4X5 any more :sad: But if the OP tightens up the ol' technique, Pan F will rock! Just be sure to develop ASAP after exposure.
 

jim appleyard

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I get good results with D-76 1+3 and with Rodinal 1+100. It sometimes takes awhile to dial in the right time, temp and EI to suit your needs. Pan-F is not the easiest film to get right the first time.
 

John Wiegerink

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I get good results with D-76 1+3 and with Rodinal 1+100. It sometimes takes awhile to dial in the right time, temp and EI to suit your needs. Pan-F is not the easiest film to get right the first time.
I use Xtol replenished for PanF+ also, but it's a little harder to get the result you want as far as contrast go. Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand is as easy as falling off a log when it comes to taming highlights in contrasty lighting. JohnW
 
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DF

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I probably should've used the word "inconsistent" instead of dismal.
 

pentaxuser

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I probably should've used the word "inconsistent" instead of dismal.
I fear it is likely that the inconsistency is due to factors outwith the D76 per se. Have a go with Rodinal by all means but recognise the problem with D76 may not be the D76

pentaxuser
 

faberryman

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cbella

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John, I'm going to try the semi-stand technique. Do you use it across the board, or specifically for certain types of film?
 

John Wiegerink

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John, I'm going to try the semi-stand technique. Do you use it across the board, or specifically for certain types of film?
Actually I use it more related to the lighting of the scene and the subject matter. Sometimes a little coarser grain might be called for or a little more contrast and then I won't use semi-stand. Two films I really like Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand with are Fuji Acros and PanF+. I'm sure it will work fine with other films also, but haven't tried it with all films. Another film that liked it was the last batch of Shanghai GP3, but haven't tried it on the newest batches just released. I use Xtol-R for 70% of my developing, Pyrocat HDC for about 25% and Rodinal for about 5%. Each has it's own purpose in my darkroom. Give Rodinal Semi-stand a try as it's the only way to know for sure if it's what "YOU" like. JohnW
 
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