Pan F+ 120 With Pink Tint On Negs

[braxus]

I developed 2 rolls of Pan F+ in 120 today. Both rolls came out with a pink tint on the negs itself after developing. I did prewash this film (lots of blue tint came out).

What causes the pink tint on the film base itself? I asked another member and he noticed it on his rolls of this too. Is it something to do with more recent emulsions of this film? My older rolls of Pan F+ that I shot not long ago were clear.

 

[albada]

Here is a sticky thread on this topic:
Pink/Magenta Stain (not blue, which is a different issue)

Summary: The pink/magenta stain is caused by left-over sensitisation dyes. This usually (always?) indicates the film was not fixed enough, either due to exhausted fixer or not enough time fixing. You should also ensure that you wash well.

 

[braxus]

Interesting. I fixed both rolls for 10 minutes with Ilford Rapid Fix. I guess it must have been at the end of its age.

 

[albada]

Interesting. I fixed both rolls for 10 minutes with Ilford Rapid Fix. I guess it must have been at the end of its age.

In that thread, it seems the best way to remove the tint is to re-fix the film in fresh fixer and re-wash. That's fine if one hasn't yet cut the roll into strips.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Here is a sticky thread on this topic:
Pink/Magenta Stain (not blue, which is a different issue)

Summary: The pink/magenta stain is caused by left-over sensitisation dyes. This usually (always?) indicates the film was not fixed enough, either due to exhausted fixer or not enough time fixing. You should also ensure that you wash well.

I've seen this magenta/pink stain in several films, after fixing long enough. I fix for 3 times the clearing time, with a minimum of 5', to be on the safe side. If you leave the film soak in water long enough while washing, it will clear. Left undisturbed for 15', it will tint the wash water pink. Apart from that, exposure to light will eventually remove the tint.

Anyway, a magenta tint doesn't necessarily mean that it's underfixed. There are ways to figure out if a film is properly fixed or not and this involves sodium sulfide solution, or selenium toner.

 

[NB23]

Tmx pink washes out. Tri-x pink does not wash out.

Tmx pink fades out with exposure to UV,

I don’t renember exactly my pan-f negs but I do remember they were a bit Pink.

Properly fixed negs shall be determined by the manufacturer’s recomendation.

And it’s easy to see to the eye: a proper transparence along the edge perforations, in between the frames.
Badly fixed negs will be milky and no transparent, more like opaqueness, translucent

 

[Klaus_H]

Pink color on the PAN F Plus negatives is normal. It's intensity depends on the age of the film.
Even if a PAN F Plus did not reach it's "quality end date" ( best before) the pink color exists.
The pink color can not be removed by a longer fixing time in fresh fixer (like TMAX films), nor by a longer washing time.
It is not a fault, it's a feature.
It does not have infuence on the prints.
I've never had a PAN F Plus film (120) that did not have the pink color.

 

[pentaxuser]

I've never had a PAN F Plus film (120) that did not have the pink color.

Can you or anybody else who has used Pan F, say if this pink tint is confined to 120 only? I have only ever developed Pan F in 35mm and I don't remember any pink tint in it

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Can you or anybody else who has used Pan F, say if this pink tint is confined to 120 only? I have only ever developed Pan F in 35mm and I don't remember any pink tint in it

Thanks

pentaxuser

I shot a 35 of Pan F a few years ago, that was way past its best by date. No pink. Shortly after that, I shot my first roll of fresh 120 Pan F. No pink. The last roll I shot from an even fresher batch... pink. But, the pink came out. Fresh fix, a good soak in water, followed by HCA, seems to take care of it. No prewash given. Ilford recommends against it. At the end of the day, if there is a wee bit of pink, I don't worry about it.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

...I should add that the same developer...D-23 1+3... was used for above mentioned films.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Eeeeek! Now I want to test to see if choice of developer has an effect on the pink!

 

[removedacct1]

Consider a hypo clearing soak in 10% Sodium sulfite for 5 minutes, rather than longer fixing times. There's no need to fix in a modern rapid fixer (Ammonium thiosulfate) for fifteen minutes! All you do is make it more difficult to wash the thiosulfate from the film.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks Andrew. It may be that PanF in 35mm is in terms of post development tint quite different from its 35 mm brother as seems to be the case with CatLABS 320 Pro where the 35 mm and 120 produce 2 different post development colours

pentaxuser

 

[braxus]

My rolls of Pan F+ that were dated from a few years back had no pink. This film was basically fresh stock from a year ago or so. I have even newer rolls of this in 120, so it would be curious how it comes out. I still haven't broken open my fresh brick of Pan F+ yet. Im trying to start using the stock of Efke 25 I have.

 

[braxus]

Eeeeek! Now I want to test to see if choice of developer has an effect on the pink!

Things really do develop when it comes to things of pink.

That said most of my B&W films have a clear base. Only a couple times have I seen color, being blue with some Plus X once.

 

[ags2mikon]

Be careful with over fixing with rapid fix. It can bleach out the lower zones causing a loss of shadow detail.

 

[Dwight Anderson]

Thanks Andrew. It may be that PanF in 35mm is in terms of post development tint quite different from its 35 mm brother as seems to be the case with CatLABS 320 Pro where the 35 mm and 120 produce 2 different post development colours

pentaxuser

Just want to point out that the 35mm and 120 Catlabs 320 pro I shot had the same dark yellow color when developed in HC110. I believe the dark grey color people have reported comes from a water prewash. This was explained in the catlabs test thread by Henning, post #379

 

[gone]

As Paul said, 15 minutes in rapid fixer is a lot longer than usual. Not sure if it's an issue, but I'd try to keep it around 4 or 5 times as long as it takes to clear w/ a clip test.

 

[braxus]

Just to reaffirm what I did, I fixed my rolls for 10 minutes. It was never 15. Just in case someone is confused on my part.

 

[reddesert]

IME using wash aid as paulbarden said, in addition to a reasonable fixing time will remove any colored sensitizing dyes from every film I have tried (includes old Pan F+ though not any recently made Pan F+).

 

[Sirius Glass]

Longer fix time and longer wash time.

 

[removedacct1]

Just want to point out that the 35mm and 120 Catlabs 320 pro I shot had the same dark yellow color when developed in HC110. I believe the dark grey color people have reported comes from a water prewash. This was explained in the catlabs test thread by Henning, post #379

Catlabs 320 Pro film is Aviphot 200, repackaged. Its nothing new.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Okay...

Fixing film for 10 minutes or 15 or 20 in exhausted fixer still won't adequately fix the film. Use fresh fix and keep an eye on the throughput capacity or do clip tests to determine when to toss the fixer.

If the fixer was fresh and the pink still persists after a longish wash (20-30 minutes), then try an alkaline bath before the wash. I have a similar problem with TMY (just certain batches... strange) and use a weak sodium carbonate, metabisulfite or even bicarbonate (baking soda) to treat the negatives for a few minutes. That does the job well.

A bit of pink won't hurt the printing as long as you're sure you've fixed and washed adequately.

Do a test with selenium toner 1+9 on a clear area of film to test for residual silver. A drop on the squeegeed film after fixing and washing, let it sit for three minutes, rinse off and inspect. Any color other than a very faint cream color indicates inadequate fixing.

Hope this helps,

Doremus