Overhauling Kodak Panoram

John Shriver · Mar 13, 2012

Everyone talks about adjusting the focus on their Panorams, but what distance do you focus it at, once you have a ground glass substitute at the film plane?

Kodak says that group portraits should be at a minimum of 20 feet from the subject. Now, with a 90mm focal length, and f/11 aperture, I suppose I can use a depth of field calculator. That shows focusing at 40 feet gives focus from 18.3 feet to infinity. Is that the sort of distance folks are focusing them at?

I did a first try at focusing at 20 feet, which may or may not have been very accurate, but distant objects are NOT sharp at all.

I've used rubber coated nylon changing bag as a bellows. I may not have made it quite baggy enough, the slower shutter speed isn't very reliable about swinging all the way. Or maybe it's too stiff compared to the original chamois. Of course with ASA 100 film (as opposed to the ASA 25 film it was designed for), I'd normally be using the faster shutter speed. So I'm not super concerned.

John Shriver · Mar 14, 2012

Actually, anything off the lens axis is not sharp. My hunch is that someone got the meniscus lens installed backwards after taking it out of the mount for cleaning. Easy enough to test.

John Shriver · Mar 14, 2012

Lance18 -- you have to loosen the square nut at the top of the bearing screw (inside the camera) before you can loosen the bottom bearing screw.

John Shriver · Mar 19, 2012

Well, nobody else seems to be responding here, but I'll respond to myself. The meniscus lens was indeed in my Panoram No. 1 backwards. The concave side should face the subject. Huge difference in the appearance of the photos.

filmamigo · May 15, 2013

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, especially the OP.

I am awaiting delivery of a Model 3A in unknown condition, so I expect the information in this thread will be very useful. I am ordering some 122 film from the 2013 Ilford ULF custom run, and look forward to exposing some giant rollfilm.

removed account4 · May 15, 2013

filmamigo said:
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, especially the OP.

I am awaiting delivery of a Model 3A in unknown condition, so I expect the information in this thread will be very useful. I am ordering some 122 film from the 2013 Ilford ULF custom run, and look forward to exposing some giant rollfilm.

there was a minilab down the street from me and the owner ( now deceased ? ) had a big one like that on the top shelf as a "curiosity" piece.
i tried to buy it from him but no-go then the shop moved, and the new location no longer had the camera.

have fun with that giant roll of film, i use a 3A graflex and that film is 3+inches wide ! you are going to have some beautiful views!

john

Timothy Brooks · Jul 18, 2013

Manuall for Panoram-Kodak No.4, Model D

I'm looking for the manual for the Model D of this camera. I found the one for the No. 4 but there are many differences. A PDF copy would be great. Thanks.

B&Jdude said:
Jack:

The No 4 came out first, in 1899, used type 103 film, and had no door on the front, then they added the door in 1900, but still called it a No. 4 with no letter. Also in 1900 the No 1, with no letter, came out using 105 film . . . 105 was the same size as 120 film, but had smaller holes in the spools, which is why 120 film spools are a bit wobbly in these cameras. Both models opened for film loading and unloading by splitting the case into 2 pieces along a curved joint. Both the early #1 and #4 had Rapid Rectilinear lens as standard equipment, but some could be special ordered with early Goerz pre-Dagor lenses.

The Panarams went through B and C versions which were substantially the same as the original except the lens was changed to a meniscus lens and various other minor changes such as adding 3 metal plates on the sides of the film track to help keep the film from jumping out of the track, placement of the bubble level, etc.

Then, somewhere in the 1920's the D version came out which dispensed with the 2 piace case in favor of a case which opened by the back hinging downward and the sides swinging outward which exposed the insides for film loading and unloading (on the film winder side, the carrying strap had to be unclipped from the top of the camera so that side could swing open).

There were variations in the #1 & #4 D versions, as well. Some had two levels and tripod mounting threads, on on top and one on the side, so the camera could take horizontal or vertical (such as of a waterfall or tall building) shots. Some had a gear-ratchet speed control mechanism located on the bottom of the swivel lens shaft.

Lastly, near the end of Panoram production, the 3A model (the only Panoram using the A letter designation) was produced for about 2 years between 1926 - 1928. It was similar to the #1D & #4D except that it used type 122 film and many (if not all) had a 2 position speed changing lever separate from the tensioning lever.

Some of the other folks on here may have more specifics to add, especially dates/years regarding when these various iterations in the Panoram cameras occurred.

EuGene

Jordant · Jul 9, 2021

Hi.

I'm new to the forum and have recently purchased a No.1 Panoram. The camera is in excellent condition, however, the mechanism isn't quite right. No surprises there. The spring arm which slots into one of two holes to hold lens in place before firing will only work for one direction and even that requires me to manually slot it into place.

The small spring for this arm is clearly missing so that will need addressing.

My question here is; If I'm to remove the mechanism held in with the four screws, does the lens shaft need to be removed or can I remove the entire mechanism and leave the lens/shaft in the camera?
Also, if I do have to remove the lens shaft, the screw and the locknut at the base will need to be loosened off. I see a mention of a small nail requiring removal before the locknut is turned. I cannot see this nail on my example. It is the early version with no letter.

There's so little information about on these cameras but his forum has been very helpful so far and any further help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

rob_gervais · Oct 12, 2022

Okay - this thread hasn't been active in a long time - hopefully some members are still watching out there.

I have a No. 4D Panoram that I'm working on. I've gotten the shutter mechanism operable (compared to how I received it) but there's a couple questions I have.

First, in post #112, Frank R states (using numbers from Patent 693583) that arm (46) should not be centered with lever (45), but off to one side. Mine is not "secured rigidly to the lower end of arbor 41" as it says in the patent text. It rotates considerably. I slightly tightened the nut, but don't want to end up in Frank's situation. My question is to which side and at what angle should arm (46) be offset?

Second, after the shutter fires, the catch on arm (48) should engage with one of the holes (47) in the segmented rack (30). Mine does not. Instead, my shutter catches on the edge of plate 30 - not in either of the holes. I was testing with the lens not installed - perhaps the lack of mass is contributing??? The lens didn't rotate properly when installed, which lead me to testing this way.

Initially I thought the spring that pushes on the end of arm (48) was a too strong replacement so I substituted a small piece of pen spring. Same result. I'm thinking it may be related to arm (46) being loose.

It seems all roads on the internet for working on Panorams lead to this thread - so I'm giving it a try. Thanks to anyone who replies.

Rob

rob_gervais · Oct 14, 2022

Answering my own post just to document what I found. Again, numbers are from Patent 693583.

The springs 60 & 61 on my mechanism had been previously worked on. They were bent in such a way that when arm 46 did not properly engage. From the patent: "...said spring-catches having shoulders at their forward ends adapted to engage, respectively, with the pin or arm 33 upon the arbor of the lens tube." In other words, when the lens swung around, the pin 33 is supposed to catch on the shoulder at the end of the spring 60 & 61 to prevent rebound. Mine was bent in such a way that was not happening. The loose arm 46 didn't appear to matter, nor did whether or not arm 48 engaged in the holes or side of plate 30.

So, the lens mechanism is now working (may have to put back together the Arduino shutter tester to check speeds). On to the aesthetics and then ensuring lens focus. Also have to repair the back door, mine has the three doors that fold out -- it's a No. 4 Model D. The right side (looking at the back) has broken off on the outer part of the slot that engages the side door. It appears someone tried to close the back when the side door wasn't all the way in. Shouldn't be too bad a repair.

Then, 1.) Order 10x12 X-ray film. 2.) Get new trays for developing 4x12 negatives. 3.) Check darkroom chemistry. etc.

If all goes well, by the time Thanksgiving week rolls around, I'll be ready to shoot some 4x12 (more or less, less actually) on the Utah trip. Assuming the Jeep is up to it.

Rob

rob_gervais · Oct 15, 2022

Is there anyone out there with some practical knowledge on these mechanisms?

I feel like I understand how the mechanism works - I just can't (re) assemble it in such a way that it does. Frustrated.

cmartseille · May 10, 2025

Bonjour à tous,

Je sais que ce fil de discussion est vieux mais il est comme nos appareils Panoram n°4 : Intemporels.

J'ai acheté un panoram 4 que je restaure.
Je souhaite démonter la partie mécanique pour la nettoyer et la graisser.
En effet, en vitesse lente, le mécanisme ne se déclenche qu'une fois sur deux. Par contre en vitesse 'normale' je n'ai pas de soucis dans un sens ou l'autre.

Sauriez-vous à quoi celà est lié ?
Enfin, dans la discussion j'ai lu que des questions étaient posée en donnant des chiffres aux parties mécaniques. J'ai essayé de trouver des informations, vues et ou référence mais n'y suis pas parvenu. Auriez-vous ce type d'information s'il vous plait ?

Ma 'bouteille à la mer' est jetée.
Je continue ma restauration mais j'espère que quelqu'un verra ce message.

Bien cordialement,
Chris

Overhauling Kodak Panoram

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