ORWO UT21 in room temp C41

[real_liiva]

Back in the summer i managed to get "decent" images off of orwo NC19 negative film by developing in room temp c41, recently got my hands on some UT21 and tried the same thing. Gave it as much light as i could (probably around EI 6) and developed in 24 C C41 for 8 minutes. Got color images, colors are worse than the NC19 but that might be mainly underexposure and the lack of any green these days. Also have tried to process as slide with bw first dev + room temp c41 as color dev with mixed results (first dev defo needs some restrainer for the base fog) but dont have any scans of that rn.

 

[Pelovsky]

that's an interesting experiment. I have had very nice results with 16mm NC3 developed in native C5166 chemistry, and mixed results with UT15 and UT21 souped in C9165. The biggest problem with UT films was always base fog. If the fog was within reasonable margin, the colors you'd get developing in correct chemistry are really nice.

 

[lamerko]

For some reason, even when they were new, the NC21 and UT21 were not good. There was something very wrong with them. After more than 30 years, it is surprising that they give any color at all. On the other hand, UT18 were good. Perhaps the best ORWO color films, before they started experimenting with the C-41.
These films are not suitable for cross with C-41 chemistry. Not only because of the different color agent, but also because of the bleach. You need a strong ferricyanide bleach - the special thing about these processes is that this bleach is involved in the dye formation process.

Soon there will be some tests from me as well, mainly with UT18.
My idea is to develop first with a modified black and white developer until I achieve lower base fog values. This implies many trials with short times, very low temperatures, different combinations of anti-fogging agents. When a satisfactory result is achieved, I will simply turn them in color.
I also have two boxes of NC3 - one I haven't tested yet, but I have high hopes it's stored well, and the other is literally baked from the high temperatures. However, I'll play around with it to see exactly what can be done with it - it's all part of the fun

 

[real_liiva]

For some reason, even when they were new, the NC21 and UT21 were not good. There was something very wrong with them. After more than 30 years, it is surprising that they give any color at all. On the other hand, UT18 were good. Perhaps the best ORWO color films, before they started experimenting with the C-41.
These films are not suitable for cross with C-41 chemistry. Not only because of the different color agent, but also because of the bleach. You need a strong ferricyanide bleach - the special thing about these processes is that this bleach is involved in the dye formation process.

Soon there will be some tests from me as well, mainly with UT18.
My idea is to develop first with a modified black and white developer until I achieve lower base fog values. This implies many trials with short times, very low temperatures, different combinations of anti-fogging agents. When a satisfactory result is achieved, I will simply turn them in color.
I also have two boxes of NC3 - one I haven't tested yet, but I have high hopes it's stored well, and the other is literally baked from the high temperatures. However, I'll play around with it to see exactly what can be done with it - it's all part of the fun

I have some c-5168 ferricyanide bleach, I was able to get color also with blix though. I did notice that the color of the base fog was different. With blix the base fog was a greyish purple, with ferricyanide bleach and bw fixer the base fog was almost orange like an orange mask. In scans this didn't seem to affect the colors much tho.

 

[lamerko]

I have some c-5168 ferricyanide bleach, I was able to get color also with blix though. I did notice that the color of the base fog was different. With blix the base fog was a greyish purple, with ferricyanide bleach and bw fixer the base fog was almost orange like an orange mask. In scans this didn't seem to affect the colors much tho.

The fact that you see such a change in the film with different bleaches indicates that something serious is going on with the dyes. Of course, the main problem is the (possibly) high base fog.

Have never use NC but lots of UT and some UK. (There were very few who used color negative back then, for the simple fact that color paper was not easily avaible.) Do not remember anything wrong with UT21. Even today I can not see anything wrong with the slides made from that particular film.

I have compared UT18 with UT21 - there was a difference. Of course, this is my opinion, but I have quite a few acquaintances who have had the same findings.

I also do not understand why people develop in C41. If one wants to get images from these films, why not mix the chemistry Agfa/ORWO intended these films to be developed in. The recipy is avaible, substances can be purchased.

The ORWO formulas are very simple to recreate, only CD1 is a bit harder to find. But it's not impossible.

 

[Pelovsky]

I also do not understand why people develop in C41

You're not alone in that
I think if you have this film on hand and want to play - play by the rules, that's the only way to get the nostalgic look people search (and long) for. Especially now, when Internet provides you with all the knowledge and possibilities to do so.

Have never use NC but lots of UT and some UK. (There were very few who used color negative back then, for the simple fact that color paper was not easily avaible.)

that and the fact that the paper was expensive and of poor quality. Just recently I scanned a NC19 film from my parent's wedding (I guess they chose it to make prints for the guests). The actual prints made on ORWO paper are all brown-sepia now, but the scans from this negative came out very nice with little to no color correction.

 

[lamerko]

There is a guy in Russia offering kits he produces from fresh substances. Not expensive, but you have to consider shipping cost. But than if you want to do it, do it right, not?

I've seen the kits on eBay, but I just don't need them. As I wrote, the formulas are elementary. All the necessary chemicals are well known and widely used in photography, even now. For this reason, I already had everything I needed without CD1 when I started collecting the films. I got hold of some a little later - now I have enough for tests.
When it comes to films over 30 years old, the official formulas are only for guidance, experiments are needed to find the best ratio.

 

[Pelovsky]

Over the weekend I shot and developed some ORWO NC3 film that I got from a friend of mine in 2018 in exchange for some CD1. The ORWO NC3 film is a tungsten balanced negative film with BH perforation, intended for tv and cinematic productions. I shot it @12-25ASA and developed in modified ORWO C5166 process (I prolonged the development stage to 16:00 minutes @21C and replaced natrium thiosulfate fixer with a standard C41 fixer). I scanned the film with my Canon 77D with Rodagon WA 60mm enlarging lens and a led panel as a light source. Images were inverted in Lightroom using NLP, almost no color correction was made.
I am over-the-moon happy with the results. I still have some 40 meters of this stock and I am definitely going to shoot it when there's more sunlight.
I post it here, so there's a comparison between abusing ORWO films with E6/C41 and giving them some love with dedicated chemistry.

 

[lamerko]

This inspires me to finally open my NC3 box. I actually have another box where the film unfortunately turned out to be "burnt", probably unusable.
Great colors!