Orwo 54 developing in Microdol-X

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irivlin

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The Massive developing chart gives 33 minutes developing time, for Orwo UN54, developed in Microdol-X 1+2. (22 centigrade).
Developers like D23, D76, XTOL HC110 etc are quoted as between 8-13 minutes. I assume Microdol-X has a bit more sodium sulphite in it than "ordinary" developers, which will slow up developed a little, but 33 minutes sounds way over the top. Surely this is a typo?
Does anyone have any suggestions. I don't want to ruin this roll of film
 

koraks

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Surely this is a typo?

You have to read the notes on the massive dev chart. For this combination, it says:
Agitation: continuous first min, then 10 secs every 3 mins.
Moreover, massive dev chart times are to a large extent user-submitted, and those times are not verified in any way. So if someone at some point did 33 minutes with this combination, obtained absolutely bulletproof negatives that are virtually impossible to print, BUT they were happy with it, they could have submitted that time and it would end up on the chart just the same.

For unknown developer/film combinations, I generally try to approximate by picking some known film/dev combinations and then extrapolating from there. For instance, you're looking for Orwo UN54 times and Microdol-X. You might look at times of Orwo UN54 with more mundane developers, like D76. There's a D76 stock time of 5.5 minutes for this combination.
Then look at times for D76 for a film that you suspect is not too fundamentally different from the film you're about to use, and pick a film that also has times for your developer of choice. Given that UN54+ is a 100 speed panchromatic regular (non-T) grain film, you might use something like Foma 100 as a reference - although there's no Microdol 1+2 time for this (the 1+2 dilution appears to be super uncommon). D76 stock for Foma 100 time is 6-7 minutes; let's say 6.5 minutes, and Microdol stock is given as 8 minutes. So roughly 25% longer for Microdol.
Now take your D76 stock time for UN54 and add 25% to it, which will give a little less than 7 minutes; I'd round up to 7 minutes. That's for Microdol stock. You could approximate the more dilute variants by looking at Microdol times for other films and then working out an approximate multiplication factor. If you do that, you see that the difference between stock and 1+1 is usually something like +20% or so, and stock vs. 1+3 is maybe +75% or thereabouts. From this, you could infer that UN54 in Microdol 1+2 might work OK at roughly 10-11 minutes with regular agitation. That's what I'd start with.

I suspect the time of 33 minutes was submitted by someone who either likes their negatives bulletproof, who consistently develops at a lower temperature than 22C without realizing it, who underexposes their negatives and makes up for it during development etc. Or maybe it's just a typo and it should have been 13 minutes or so. Who's to say. As said, Massive Dev Chart times sometimes have to be taken with a grain of salt. Some triangulation as shown above can help to work out if there's something funny going on, and if that's the case, you know it's a good idea to do a clip/strip test to establish a starting point that works for you.
 

runswithsizzers

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The Massive developing chart gives 33 minutes developing time, for Orwo UN54, developed in Microdol-X 1+2. (22 centigrade).
Developers like D23, D76, XTOL HC110 etc are quoted as between 8-13 minutes. I assume Microdol-X has a bit more sodium sulphite in it than "ordinary" developers, which will slow up developed a little, but 33 minutes sounds way over the top. Surely this is a typo?
Does anyone have any suggestions. I don't want to ruin this roll of film
It seems like the best strategy to maximize your chance of success would be to process the negatives according to Filmotec's recommendations, right?

In this document <https://analogfilm.space/datasheets/orwo-un54.pdf> Filmotec says to process UN54 "...according to ORWO instruction 1182 (D96)..."

I was unable to find an English version of instruction 1182, but in this German version <https://filmotec.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Verarbeitungsvorschrift-1182.pdf> they seem to be recommending 5-8 minutes in Kodak D96 at 20-22*C(?) Maybe someone who reads German can verify what that document says.

Edit: found the English version of the instructions here: <https://www.freestylephoto.com/static/pdf/product_pdf/wolfen/Processing_Sheet_DN21_1182.pdf>
... however the instructions do not suggest what agitation should be used, so perhaps not that useful for first time home development?
 
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cmacd123

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Edit: found the English version of the instructions here: <https://www.freestylephoto.com/static/pdf/product_pdf/wolfen/Processing_Sheet_DN21_1182.pdf>
... however the instructions do not suggest what agitation should be used, so perhaps not that useful for first time home development?

of course Filmotec was in the business of Making MOTION Picture film, so they would have assumed a continuos running Movie developing machine. the 5 to 8 minutes range covers SEVERAL of the films that Filmotec sold. both Camera negative as well as DP (duplicating positive) and DN Duplicating Negative films.
 

runswithsizzers

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of course Filmotec was in the business of Making MOTION Picture film, so they would have assumed a continuos running Movie developing machine. the 5 to 8 minutes range covers SEVERAL of the films that Filmotec sold. both Camera negative as well as DP (duplicating positive) and DN Duplicating Negative films.
True, yet ORWO is selling WOLFEN UN54 in 135 cassettes. It would be great if ORWO would provide a little more guidance for processing their product by methods more commonly used by by stills photographers.
---
@irivlin, lacking more specific processing information from ORWO, I think your best course of action might be to shoot a test roll (or two) so you can experiment with developing times in Microdol-X before processing that roll which you "...don't want to ruin..."?
 

cmacd123

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True, yet ORWO is selling WOLFEN UN54 in 135 cassettes. It would be great if ORWO would provide a little more guidance for processing their product by methods more commonly used by by stills photographers.
and their is Wolfen 100 also - seems their are two batches, one like old UN54, and another with the Heavy Gray anti- halo layer. some with Movie style B&H perfs, and some with more still like KS perfs. much with NO edge print. and some in Metal Cassettes which have end caps Stacked so strongly hat they will not come off, and others with a plastic cassettes that resembles that used By Flic Film.

also their is AristaPan 100, in the metal cassettes with the "will not open end caps." (which Ironically might be the source for developing times for the Other Wolfen (they are not allowed to use ORWO any more) 100 ASA films.. https://www.freestylephoto.com/static/pdf/product_pdf/aristapan/AristaPan_100_Technical_Sheet.pdf
 

MarkS

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Interesting that the MDC chart calls for Microdol-X diluted 1:2. Kodak's recommendation for at least the last 50 years has been for Microdol-X to be used either straight or at a 1:3 dilution. So... MDC's chart may derive from one user's one-time use- let's just say it does not inspire confidence. From memory, EK's time for Tri-X in Mic-X 1:3 was 15 minutes @75F.
33 minutes in any developer I know of suggests semi-stand or stand development, in which case you're way off the map, and all bets are off.
However... a dilute developer with a long recommended time means that a few seconds, or even a minute's, process time difference will have a smaller effect.
I've never heard of this film, so I'll just suggest looking for a comparable-speed film and using its process time in the developer of your choice.
 
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