Orange spots all over the negative

[Yuan Francois]

Hey guys, I’ve always had this issue in one way or another with c-41 development and I’ve only managed to offset the problem with inconsistent results.
Pictured is the worst case scenario of the spots that turn up on my negative. I know the long strands are dust and I can deal with that much more easily but the deposits all over the negative have been a challenge.

I somewhat figure that its due to the hardness of my water leaving mineral deposits on my negative during the drying process but is there anything I can incorporate into my workflow for clean negatives?

I mix my chemicals with distilled water and do my final rinse in distilled water. The rinses in between are done with tap water with the ilford method and I dry at the end with a salad spinner. What Id get still are negatives that are 70% spotless for most of the roll and the rolls at the end that are filthy although for the most part, there is no water on the film when I hang to dry. My most effective solution has been to wipe the film off with a pec pad but that leaves scratches. Also I’m thinking also that my salad spinner is too small and is also scratching my film.
Ive used photo flo at the correct dilution and it solved issues ive had with water marks but not the mineral deposits. I’m positioning myself to invest in Kodak final rinse but want to be sure that it has properties that are likely to solve my issue before I proceed to purchase.

Thank you in advance.

 

[nickandre]

That looks like dust -- with distilled water and stabilizer you should just be able to hang them and minimize dust by keeping the film in some sort of enclosed space. If you find you have a lot, try a hepa filter in the room.

 

[koraks]

That looks like dust

Yup, most likely dust. Also the tiny specks. My main advice would be to try and maintain a dust-free environment during drying. I've never found HEPA filters to be a necessity, but some basic hygiene measures are usually in order. E.g. prevent airflows that may stir up and carry around dust in rooms that aren't spotlessly clean.
Another issue that sometimes pops up is when C41 fixer is reused. In my experience, C41 fixer tends to throw down tiny specks of precipitate sometimes, which somehow stick to the film much better than anything else. Filtering reused fixer helps, and so does using fixer one-shot.

 

[Auer]

Skip the Salad Spinner.

 

[Yuan Francois]

I have a pretty hard time believing its dust as Ive gone to great lengths to keep my drying space clean. On the negative these spots appear like chemical residue. It doesn’t come out with the wipe of an anti static brush and can only be wiped clean occasionally with a spray of distilled water. Can dust be bonded to the negative like that where it looks like a stain, especially in this pattern?

 

[Yuan Francois]

Skip the Salad Spinner.

Id love to but when I abandon it my negatives are unusable

 

[Yuan Francois]

Yup, most likely dust. Also the tiny specks. My main advice would be to try and maintain a dust-free environment during drying. I've never found HEPA filters to be a necessity, but some basic hygiene measures are usually in order. E.g. prevent airflows that may stir up and carry around dust in rooms that aren't spotlessly clean.
Another issue that sometimes pops up is when C41 fixer is reused. In my experience, C41 fixer tends to throw down tiny specks of precipitate sometimes, which somehow stick to the film much better than anything else. Filtering reused fixer helps, and so does using fixer one-shot.

I also get this issue when blix is freshly mixed with distilled water but I will try to do this, thank you

 

[Yuan Francois]

That looks like dust -- with distilled water and stabilizer you should just be able to hang them and minimize dust by keeping the film in some sort of enclosed space. If you find you have a lot, try a hepa filter in the room.

Really contemplating a hepa filter near both my drying and scanning spaces. I also use the cinestill powder kit without stabilizer, could that be the problem?

 

[Ces1um]

Really contemplating a hepa filter near both my drying and scanning spaces. I also use the cinestill powder kit without stabilizer, could that be the problem?

Just remember Hepa filters have exhaust air so it will blow air around your drying/scanning spaces. This can stir up settled dust on surfaces and blow it around. They work better when you AREN'T actively using these spots rather than while you are. Turn them on when you aren't using the area and on when you aren't drying/scanning. I have twelve units in my office and one at home and have been using them for the past year so I do have a fair amount of experience with what they'll do to an area. My two cents.

 

[Yuan Francois]

Just remember Hepa filters have exhaust air so it will blow air around your drying/scanning spaces. This can stir up settled dust on surfaces and blow it around. They work better when you AREN'T actively using these spots rather than while you are. Turn them on when you aren't using the area and on when you aren't drying/scanning. I have twelve units in my office and one at home and have been using them for the past year so I do have a fair amount of experience with what they'll do to an area. My two cents.

Thank you for the insight, noted!

 

[koraks]

Can dust be bonded to the negative like that where it looks like a stain, especially in this pattern?

Yes.
I agree with the recommendation to ditch the salad spinner. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

[foc]

Can you show a photo of your negatives,

• using the salad spinner
• not using the salad spinner

As has been suggested above, I would not use a salad spinner for the simple reason that all that moving is making it very easy for the film to pick up any floating particles in the air.

Unless your local water supply is like "ditch water", I can't see that causing any problem.
Did you filter your C41 chemicals?

Dust and debris on negs at time of developing is usually caused by one or more of the following, particles in the chemicals, particles in the wash, particles in air at drying.

 

[Yuan Francois]

Can you show a photo of your negatives,

• using the salad spinner
• not using the salad spinner

As has been suggested above, I would not use a salad spinner for the simple reason that all that moving is making it very easy for the film to pick up any floating particles in the air.

Unless your local water supply is like "ditch water", I can't see that causing any problem.
Did you filter your C41 chemicals?

Dust and debris on negs at time of developing is usually caused by one or more of the following, particles in the chemicals, particles in the wash, particles in air at drying.

I will do a development session tonight and send samples like you've described. I would be pretty happy if it turns out it wasnt my water causing the issue because thats very much outside my control. But the local water does have high amounts of calcium and magnesium.

 

[Yuan Francois]

Update. Developed five rolls and it was a disaster. I must have rewashed the film at least three times in de-ionized water. I'm agreeing with you guys on this one that it could be the dust. My neighbours are doing construction and a lot of drilling and laying of cement has been going on so there must be a higher dust content in the air although my bathroom is sparkly clean. I'm thinking that the dust sticks to the negative in places where there are still droplets of water, which is why the dust takes such a shape or pattern that led me to believe it was minerals in the water. Could that be a thing?
I bought a collapsible film drying bag with vents and filters that I saw in an ebay listing today. I hope it solves my problem. I will also invest in kodak final rinse
.

 

[Yuan Francois]

Also here's a raw scan of a negative from my last batch. No amount of washes in distilled water can get this out. https://imgur.com/bSsk55a

 

[nickandre]

That sounds like your problem. I’d get a HEPA air filter for the room (not just for the film, also for you), make sure your doors are closed, and dry the film in a bag like you suggest to see if that helps. My bet is it will.

Update. Developed five rolls and it was a disaster. I must have rewashed the film at least three times in de-ionized water. I'm agreeing with you guys on this one that it could be the dust. My neighbours are doing construction and a lot of drilling and laying of cement has been going on so there must be a higher dust content in the air although my bathroom is sparkly clean. I'm thinking that the dust sticks to the negative in places where there are still droplets of water, which is why the dust takes such a shape or pattern that led me to believe it was minerals in the water. Could that be a thing?
I bought a collapsible film drying bag with vents and filters that I saw in an ebay listing today. I hope it solves my problem. I will also invest in kodak final rinse
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[Yuan Francois]

That sounds like your problem. I’d get a HEPA air filter for the room (not just for the film, also for you), make sure your doors are closed, and dry the film in a bag like you suggest to see if that helps. My bet is it will.

Thank you. Any air purifiers that you recommend?

 

[nickandre]

Thank you. Any air purifiers that you recommend?

Personally I have two LEVOIT units from Amazon and they work quite well. In theory most units with HEPA in the name should perform similarly. If you’re super crazy you can get an air quality monitor to measure PM2.5 and see the results. They were pretty effective when I made a poorly constructed fire in the fireplace and filled the house with smoke.