Only Apug Subscribers in the group exchange?

[resummerfield]

..... Anyone who can afford to mail several prints to different parts of the world can afford to pay a few bucks top be a subscriber.......

Well said.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I think it's good to provide incentives to subscribe, so I voted yes.

If there's someone who is an active participant but can't afford the normal subscription rate for whatever reason (student, hardship, low-value currency, low per capita income, etc.), then there's a half-price subscription rate that works on the honor system, and beyond that there are many generous participants who have been known to pick up subscription costs for those who can't afford it, as well as individuals who can serve as intermediaries for people who don't have a convenient way of paying for a subscription.

 

[Ole]

I voted yes.

Postage for the prints I send out every exchange is a lot more than the subscription fee. I know there are some members who for one reason or the other find it more difficult to pay the subscription fee than the postage (currency exchange rates can do funny things to your money, and not all currencies can be exchanged at all), but I'm sure we can find a solution to such problems.

 

[ron mcelroy]

I voted yes. I believe it creates more added value to the subscription. This is my first time print exchange and I look forward to the sharing of prints.

 

[jd callow]

I voted yes.

As a guest I get to read what is written.

As a member I get to contribute to the discourse

As a subscriber I get to participate in the exchanges, post images, use the chat, etc etc...

As a moderator I get to rifle through all of your PM's and mess with your profile.


It seems fair and appropriate. If you don't pay you can't play (if you don't pay sean and family will be out on the street).















kidding about the moderator bit.

 

[Sean]

Maybe the question should be if someone is the owner of a member organized function should they have the right to close their project off to non-subscribers? I'd rather not impose something like that across the board, but if someone is going through the trouble to manage a project should they be allowed to control access to it?

 

[naturephoto1]

As a moderator I get to rifle through all of your PM's and mess with your profile.



kidding about the moderator bit.

Kidding or not, that is pretty funny.

Being new here I am not sure of my feelings but would probably lean toward the subscriber.

Rich

 

[sunnyroller]

I voted yes! It just adds to the value of APUG.

Sunny

 

[Shmoo]

I voted "yes" because by signing up for a print exchange, you are committing at least three other people to shoot an image, develop the film, print that image, possibly mat and mount a print, package it and mail it to you. All of that activity costs more than a subscription to APUG. If a person can commit to a print exchange but can't afford the subscription, perhaps they should forego the exchange and subscribe instead? Just a thought.

S

 

[Marc Leest]

I think (honestly) this is the worst idea since the foundation of APUG. It's not that $25 , it's the principle.
I suggest to be a subscriber to download a developer recipe.
I suggest to be a subscriber to exchange DIY plans for LF camera's.
I suggest to be a subscriber to access the French forum (time to close it anyway - consumes resources and nobody visit it anyway.
etc.

M.

So be it.

 

[Sean]

Suppose a 3rd party is involved in the exchange? photog1 send his print to Jeremy, photog2 sends his print to Jeremy, when both prints are in Jeremy forwards them on. If one does not send a print Jeremy can send it back to the original photographer or keep it on hand for a new swap arrangement. Drawbacks are more expense with shipping and more work for Jeremy, but Jeremy might consider the extra work acceptable since he gets to see many prints..

 

[Jeremy]

Suppose a 3rd party is involved in the exchange? photog1 send his print to Jeremy, photog2 sends his print to Jeremy, when both prints are in Jeremy forwards them on. If one does not send a print Jeremy can send it back to the original photographer or keep it on hand for a new swap arrangement. Drawbacks are more expense with shipping and more work for Jeremy, but Jeremy might consider the extra work acceptable since he gets to see many prints..

I've got no problem doing it this way as long as the shipping charges are covered by those involved.

 

[bobfowler]

I voted "yes" because by signing up for a print exchange, you are committing at least three other people to shoot an image, develop the film, print that image, possibly mat and mount a print, package it and mail it to you. All of that activity costs more than a subscription to APUG. If a person can commit to a print exchange but can't afford the subscription, perhaps they should forego the exchange and subscribe instead? Just a thought.

S

Agreed...

 

[Bob F.]

Suppose a 3rd party is involved in the exchange? <Snip>

Immediate thoughts are that there are too many problems to resolve. e.g. Me in UK -> Jeremy in US -> Someone in UK... Or, in this round it would mean, UK -> US -> NZ. Could get rather expensive and would have to know postage from Texas to NZ (can probably find out online) for which Jeremy would have to queue up at the local post office for 40 or 50 packages and then I need a way to get the money to Jeremy to pay for it.

Jeremy won't even get to see the prints after all that unless he unseals them and reseals them afterwards!

As it looks like it is probably going subscriber only from the poll, the number of defaulters will drop, and then drop again as defaulters are weeded out.

Cheers, Bob.

 

[claytume]

Suppose a 3rd party is involved in the exchange? photog1 send his print to Jeremy, photog2 sends his print to Jeremy, when both prints are in Jeremy forwards them on. If one does not send a print Jeremy can send it back to the original photographer or keep it on hand for a new swap arrangement. Drawbacks are more expense with shipping and more work for Jeremy, but Jeremy might consider the extra work acceptable since he gets to see many prints..

Here's a better idea.........group the non subscribers with the people that vote to keep them in..........neither party will feel aggrieved when their committments aren't met.

Clayton

 

[ggriffi]

Here's a better idea.........group the non subscribers with the people that vote to keep them in..........neither party will feel aggrieved when their committments aren't met.

Clayton

Or how about this? Since the deadbeats don't who are the rest are (they only know that they are one) as they join in pair them with each other then neither get a print. Let's see what they say then

BTW- I am not one, just getting in my one if these.


g

 

[gr82bart]

Actually people, the issue here is to increase benefits to subscribers, which in turn may increase subscriptions, which may help Sean out.

The idea of being a subscriber reducing the number of 'defaulters' (gee, that's a much cooler word) is moot actually. Of the 3 folks on THAT list who came from the Group Exchange, all 3 are subscribers. Of the 14 in total from all exchanges on THAT list, I haven't done a detailed search, but I would say more than half are subscribers.

Again, this is way to help Sean increase benefits to being a subscriber which in turn may increase the subscriber base. At least contribute to it.

If the Group Exchange were subscriber based, the Blind Exchange can be open to all as a teaser/training ground to particpating in the Group Exchange and becoming a subscriber.

Just a thought.

Regards, Art.

 

[jtsatterlee]

Voted Yes.

I voted "yes" because by signing up for a print exchange, you are committing at least three other people to shoot an image, develop the film, print that image, possibly mat and mount a print, package it and mail it to you. All of that activity costs more than a subscription to APUG. If a person can commit to a print exchange but can't afford the subscription, perhaps they should forego the exchange and subscribe instead? Just a thought.

Agreed.

Having an online organization like this isn't an entitlement

That's right folks, the internet may be ubiquitous, but it isnt free.

If the Group Exchange were subscriber based, the Blind Exchange can be open to all as a teaser/training ground to particpating in the Group Exchange and becoming a subscriber.

Good suggestion - exchanging one print at a time can be introduce newcomers to the process and if they want to increase their interaction with other members the can subscribe and take part in the Group Exchange.

 

[jtsatterlee]

I forgot to say:

As a guest I get to read what is written.

As a member I get to contribute to the discourse

As a subscriber I get to participate in the exchanges, post images, use the chat, etc etc..

Well put, more commitment brings more benefits.

 

[Christopher Colley]

Being the only person who is not a subscriber replying to this thread, I feel a bit intimidated (should I feel this way?)

I am a not subscribed. I am also a first time participant in the Blind Print Exchange and I have mailed my prints before the deadline.

Being someone who was unsure of whether a non subscriber could even participate in the exchange I was very glad to have the opportunity to join in.

I would not have subscribed to join in on the print exchange.

I voted no on this poll, it doesn't seem needed in order to make an effective exchange. I am not subscribed, I sent my work, I am at least one example that someone in my position can have the ability to send prints.

As to the remarks of subscribers only exchanges helping Sean (mentioned at least 3 times in this thread), I ask: is this thread meant to find a way to help Sean financially or to find a way to make Print Exchanges something anyone would be glad to participate in without fear of not getting a print ? In my opinion these are two different goals that can be accomplished via different methods......

 

[MattKing]

Being the only person who is not a subscriber replying to this thread, I feel a bit intimidated (should I feel this way?)

I personally would like to thank you for this response, and the perspective it adds to the discussion. IMHO it is a well stated opinion, and you should feel welcome to contribute this way at any time, whether or not your opinion is agreed to by the majority of others.

It didn't convince me to change my "vote", but it certainly made me think again about how best to maximize the benefit to this site, through encouraging participation of everyone, whether guest, member, or subscriber.

Did you note the earlier posts, which suggested that members be entitled to participate in certain exchanges (such as the blind print Exchange which you have participated in) but not others, as a means of encouraging subscription, without discouraging participation by those who for one reason or another are either unwilling or unable to subscribe? Is that a compromise that makes sense from your perspective?

Matt

 

[Christopher Colley]

which suggested that members be entitled to participate in certain exchanges ... but not others, as a means of encouraging subscription, without discouraging participation

Matt

I read the responses but I didnt understand them in the way you described it, YES, this does make sense to me. Give someone the chance to experience an exchange (such as the blind exchange, or another smaller one) without risking loss of participation of well meaning users due to lack of participation ("deadbeats") in exchanges that have large amounts of prints.

 

[Christopher Colley]

I will just add, I think it is important to (with the above suggestion, participation in some activities, subscription required with others) make members feel welcome here.

With Matts' reply of thanks I feel much more welcome in this discussion.

I do enjoy APUG quite a lot, but I think it would be quite unfortunate if the sensation I had (that my posting as a non subscriber would be frowned upon) were to begin to propogate.

In some way (after having experienced this in another community) while making more money through subscriptions keeps the site going and is a good thing a kind of segregation or class system can and has happened as a result of making many features subscriber only. I dont think anyone wants this as it can cause stagnation in terms of who is active and who is not in a discussion (nobody only wants to get the opinions of the select few who arent "afraid" to post on a thread due to their status as a member/guest/whathave you)

 

[Dave Miller]

A very sensible response Christopher. Keep posting, and participating.

 

[Jim_in_Kyiv]

...
With Matts' reply of thanks I feel much more welcome in this discussion.

I do enjoy APUG quite a lot, but I think it would be quite unfortunate if the sensation I had (that my posting as a non subscriber would be frowned upon) were to begin to propogate.

...

Before I subscribed I felt a bit of pressure to do so, but in a positive manner, and not directed toward me in particular. Out of several sites I had read, this one seemed to have a right mix of interesting and free material and gentle persuasion. One of the things I've always liked about APUG is that it doesn't try to blast "Why haven't you subscribed yet?" into members' faces. Maybe I don't notice the persuasion so much any more, or the focus has changed a bit - Christopher, you're in a better position to tell us how that is perceived now. But your comments do make a good case for making sure that a proper balance is maintained. Thanks!

I did vote 'yes', but there's no way to vote for strongly suggesting that the Blind Exchange be promoted and kept open, so I'll do it here.