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One developer for both film and paper?

xkaes said:
A balance with very-easy-to-misplace weights certainly is one way to complicate your darkroom experience
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A simple electronic scale of twenty bucks on the other hand is easy to use and by far accurate enough for darkroom work. Very compact to put away in a cupboard, too.
 
The only “one developer for both film and p[aper” I’ve used is Caffenol. It works surprisingly well.
 
I came up with this glycin/metol paper developer, somewhere between Ansco 120 and Ansco 130, which worked very well with 4x5 Ilford HP5:

12/15 Developer

I loved the look of Ansco 120 developer, and felt Ansco 130 had too much snap and sizzle for my images, but wanted the depth, richness, and keeping qualities of Glycin...so I came up with what I call; --------------------------12/15 Developer...
www.photrio.com
 
xkaes said:
A balance with very-easy-to-misplace weights certainly is one way to complicate your darkroom experience. Ohaus makes great balances with the weights built-in -- for the same price. Nothing to loose -- except complications.
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Just no springs I have at least 4 Ohaus balances one huge one that goes upto 25kg for making solutions. Twin pan Harvard Trip balances have sliders, not great for small amounts!
 
koraks said:
A simple electronic scale of twenty bucks on the other hand is easy to use and by far accurate enough for darkroom work. Very compact to put away in a cupboard, too.
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Sure, that makes a great deal of sense but it's not complicated enough
 
MattKing said:
I probably shouldn't, but I can't resist.
Does anyone else think of J.R.R. Tolkien when they read the title to this thread?
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Of course! What else would one think when reading it?
 
I use Dektol for film and paper. For paper there is nothing to discuss, for film you can follow 1+X dilution during X minutes (1+3 during 3 minutes) as first tentative for any film shot at box speed. Shorter development times give smaller grain.
 
@halfaman: Definitely will have to try Dektol with film. I haven't used Dektol in a long time.

@cmacd123: Thanks for posting those formula links. I will be mixing my own once I get the needed chemcials.

It looks like I will be doing more business with Freestyle. Not only will B&H not ship the hydroquinone to me but they also will not ship Liquidol developer. I had errors regarding shipping when trying to go through their online checkout. In the end I had to remove the items from my cart and just get the rest of the items that I could. The Liquidol was classed as "special order" but didn't indicate that they couldn't ship to me but later I was informed that they couldn't and that was preventing me from checking out. I questioned customer service why they couldn't ship and all I was told was that it had to do with "licensing and regulations". That doesn't tell me really anything. There are other places that do not have such restrictions. If B&H gets their products by truck delivered to them then why can't they then ship out to customers? Doesn't make sense at all or am I missing something?

It may take a couple of extra days to get items from Freestyle but if it means getting the items then it will be worth it. I will be patient.
 
What About Bob said:
There are other places that do not have such restrictions. If B&H gets their products by truck delivered to them then why can't they then ship out to customers? Doesn't make sense at all or am I missing something?
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B&H have their own deal with their shipping services. That means they can offer cheap shipping to their customers, but are probably dealing with more "hazardous goods" restrictions than other more expensive shipping options.
 
I know that B&H can not ship Kodak HC-110 to me herein Canada, But will gladly ship multiple Bottles of Legacy Pro L110, which is made by PSI, who we have recently found out has been Making the Non-syrup HC110 for alaris/sino promise. I metion multiple bottles in case there was a volume restriction, (although 2 bottles of L110 IS only 946 Ml)
 

Back in the Bad Old Days when I was first getting interested in this stuff, Dektol could- and was used for both paper and film. It's not really optimal for film, but with sufficient dilution, it could be used to make pretty good negatives.

As others have pointed out, the raw chemicals required to make D-76 for film and D-72 for paper overlap somewhat are are not generally crazy expensive. If you live in the US, check out Artcraft chemicals, Bostick & Sullivan, or Photographer's Formulary.
 
and https://filmexperiencecamerastore.com/product-category/chemistry/bulk-chemicals/ has most of them except for the Borax, here in Canada. (not that their are not other suppliers also.)
 
Thanks chuckroast and cmacd123 for the alternative chemistry links, This gives me major relief and hope, knowing there are other outlets.

When I think borax I think of the 20 mule team detergent. If it didn't contain any of the side products my guess is that it could serve some purpose.
 

It can be used exactly as called for in formulae that specify borax. There is nothing magical about any of this.
Also, while we're on the subject ... While you can buy inexpensive scales that measure to 0.1g resolution, keep in mind that our forefathers measure in teaspoons and got great results. The most important thing is consistency not absolute accuracy.

You need a copy of Anchell's "Darkroom Cookbook" as you go down this path.
 
What About Bob said:
When I think borax I think of the 20 mule team detergent.
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Give it a try.

When I need sodium hydroxide, I use drain cleaner. Sodium carbonate? Cleaning soda from the supermarket. Ascorbic acid is just vitamin C from the drugstore. Sodium sulfite and sodium bisulfite are food additives available from e.g. brewer's supply stores. The same goes for citric acid and tartaric acid (e.g. for alt. process printing). As a convenient source of acetic acid (e.g. stop bath) I use cleaning vinegar, the unscented (cheapest) kind, which is 7% acetic acid where buy it (much safer and less obnoxious to handle than glacial acetic acid). There's a couple more along similar lines, where non-photo related products turn out to be perfectly acceptable ingredients for photo chemistry.

Of course, by far the easiest and certainly a very reliable way is just to order what you need from e.g. Photographer's Formulary, B&S etc.

The caveat with the 'supermarket stuff' is that you're never quite sure what the impurities may be. Personally, I've never ran into any trouble with this, and I've not heard of anyone who did. I have heard many people express concerns about impurities, although I've never seen an illustration with empirical evidence. There's an old thread on Photo.net where Ron Mowrey and Patrick Gainer play out this debate. For your amusement, it's here: https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/111471-scratch-mixing-developers-a-problem/ The TL'DR is that Ron wasn't taking any chances, and Patrick never had any problems. Personally, I've always been happy with my drain cleaner lye.
 
I agree with @koraks. I've never had any problem with the "detergent" Borax - probably because it's not actually detergent, it's actually just borax. There's nothing else in there, seemingly. Pool supplies are another good source - especially for Sodium Carbonate (Ph+ in pool terms). These are cheap sources. Arm and Hammer washing soda may be even cheaper - and it really is just sodium carbonate. Buying either of those things in small quantities from photographic suppliers is a waste of money.

Some things you'll have to order. Potassium bromide, for instance, I don't think you'll find anywhere on a shelf. Same with potassium ferricyanide, if you decide to make some reducer. And developing agents (metol, phenidone, pyro, glycin) aren't staples of the supermarket, either. A darn shame.

But coffee is.
 
My Ohaus twin pan beam scales do not have magnetic damping.
Bit of a pain waiting for them to steady enough for a decent reading. I therefore use a feather to do the damping.

The Ohaus Dial-O-Gram 310, single pan is more useful for my small time efforts.
It measures up to 310g and can measure to 0.01g using the rotary Vernier scale, it also has magnetic damping.

Johnsons Universal Developer was the stuff I started with as a school boy.
Pocket money was in short supply and a combined film and paper developer was the ideal solution (pun intended).

It would be ideal to have a universal developer available off the shelf for Toe Dippers that would like to have a try, but do not want to spend a lot of money on a couple of expensive bottles possibly only be used once then abandoned.
I doubt that manufactures would be keen on the idea these days as the forums seem to have a good number of people new to the darkroom that want to run before they can walk. Enthusiasm is a wonderful thing.

Safe DIY chemistry is definitely the way to go.
 
What About Bob said:
I wasn't clear on why he chose the 150ml either. I don't see what advantage or enhancement would come out from it. For film I could see it having some kind of a change but for prints?
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Well he usually provides proof when he changes the suggested ratio but not on this occasion so it wasn't clear why except that we may reasonably presume that he tried the 100ml in the past, felt that it could be improved and found that 150ml worked better

pentaxuser
 
BobUK said:
It would be ideal to have a universal developer available off the shelf for Toe Dippers that would like to have a try, but do not want to spend a lot of money on a couple of expensive bottles possibly only be used once then abandoned.
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As has been noted upthread, Kodak for years packaged Universal M-Q in their hobby kits and early Tri-Chem packs for exactly this use. If memory serves, this was later replaced with Dektol (aka D-72).

I have developed film quite happily in Dektol, one just has to find the right dilution and time to get quite good results.

It's easy to forget that all the fiddling and tuning we do with film developers (guilty as charged, here) is about trying to get that last little corner of performance out of the film for some tradeoff between shadow speed, grain, and sharpness. For general use and first use by the aforementioned "Toe Dippers", Dektol can still serve rather well.
 
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