There is a disconnect in the arguments here. Most people on this forum practice photography as a hobby/personal interest. That is 100% self indulgent and whether they use one medium or another is irrelvant. It's their personal choice. Those that argue that photography has moved on and that mobile/smart phones have changed the nature of photography are just pure bean counting staticians and marketers. Anyone that thinks you can define photography based on sales stats is clueless. Now lets see, when photography was invented they said it would be the death of painting. Now we have kindles so that means the death of the printed page. If you listen to these numpties we'll all be bound to follow their advice for fear of being eaten by the wolves. They are the wolves and want you to buy into what they're selling. Some of them are just plain brainless and wouldn't know the first thing about anything except how to try and manipulate your thinking to suit their marketing.
On the perception of image quality and the 'Shot on Iphone 6' campaign
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Believe it or not these very same type of discussions go on at the wristwatch forum I hang out at.
Mechanical watches have soul, battery operated/quartz don't.
Apple watch is a ridiculous piece of junk that nobody needs. Even though nobody "needs" a $1000 Hamilton, or a $20,000 Rolex or a $100,000 Richard Mille.
Rolex is for new money, Patek Philippe is for old money.
Lange has far better movements, oh yeah, but Rolex has far tougher ones.
It goes on and on.......
Pick your tribes, earn your feathers, and go to war.
It's all pretty childish.
Mechanical watches have soul, battery operated/quartz don't.
Apple watch is a ridiculous piece of junk that nobody needs. Even though nobody "needs" a $1000 Hamilton, or a $20,000 Rolex or a $100,000 Richard Mille.
Rolex is for new money, Patek Philippe is for old money.
Lange has far better movements, oh yeah, but Rolex has far tougher ones.
It goes on and on.......
Pick your tribes, earn your feathers, and go to war.
It's all pretty childish.
what most people don't know is that the internal movement for all these highend "Brands" are all made by the same manufacturer, Dead Link Removed
This company is largely owned by Omega and if you want a high quality (well made movement) then Omega is the company of choice. All the others are just Branding for people with money to burn and nothing to do with watch quality.
There is a company which makes quartz movements and basically they are the only two movement makers that cover almost 100% of the swiss market with just a few very small independants who make their own movements.
If you want the real deal, a hand made watch, then look at http://www.rwsmithwatches.com/ be warned that you may need to take out a mortgage to buy one. A nice littel film about them at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAD7VJ09wSE&list=PLB9WSi5JwX_scA41IfR90Ih_4zKI4WBZi&index=2
This company is largely owned by Omega and if you want a high quality (well made movement) then Omega is the company of choice. All the others are just Branding for people with money to burn and nothing to do with watch quality.
There is a company which makes quartz movements and basically they are the only two movement makers that cover almost 100% of the swiss market with just a few very small independants who make their own movements.
If you want the real deal, a hand made watch, then look at http://www.rwsmithwatches.com/ be warned that you may need to take out a mortgage to buy one. A nice littel film about them at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAD7VJ09wSE&list=PLB9WSi5JwX_scA41IfR90Ih_4zKI4WBZi&index=2
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True to some degree at one time. ETA is owned by the Swatch Group, one of the big three. The others are the Richmond Group, and LVMH (Louis Vuitton). There are a few smaller groups, but these three groups own, most of the majors. Rolex and Patek are two of the largest independents, of which there are quite a few and neither I don't believe ever used ETA. In fact the higher end the brand, the less likely they used ETA especially in their top models. And if they did, they would buy the movement and then rework it.
Swatch will no longer ( or soon won't) sell their movements to anyone other than who's in their group so most high end watchmakers are starting to vertically integrate their lines and make their own movements in house. They and some of the others buy movements from other makers including the Japanese.
Swatch makes, Breguet, Blancpain, Glashutte Original, Jacquet Droz, Omega, Tiffany, Harry Winston, Mido, Longines, Rado, Union Glashutte, Tissot, Hamilton and a few others.
Richmond makes, Vacheron Constantin, Baume et Mercier, Jaeger le Coultre, Lange, Cartier, Panerai, IWC, Piaget, Montblanc, Roger Dubois, and Ralph Lauren and others.
LVMH makes, Tag Hauer, Zenith, Hublot, Bulgari and a few others.
But you are right that at one time a lot of lower to middle watches ( and a few of the top end) had ETA movements and they were and are workhorses, and relatively easy to repair by local watchmakers. Whereas the real highend and exotic stuff had to be sent to the "factory", which always cost a lot more. Just to be clear, in the world of expensive watches Omega would not have been considered high end. Perhaps to the public they were, but actually they were more like higher, middle of the road. Nothing wrong with that, as that is probably where they wished to place themselves in the marketplace. Great watches, at a decent price. Although now all the brands are way too expensive partly because, of the emerging markets.
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yup
I think we had a thread about that a couple of weeks ago. Can't remember what it was though.
Not a problem. At the least, I'm glad that what I wrote was understandable.
Cool that you're into watches as well. I used to hang out on TimeZone.com all the time around 1998-2003. Almost all my watches are mechanical, but you probably suspected that.
For me, I just appreciate how difficult it is to design some of the complications in an all-mechanical watch. The complexity of a Ulysse Nardin GMT Perpetual is astounding and a work of art, but it can be achieved with a relatively simple program running on an 8-bit processor in a quartz watch.
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Utterly meaningless. They could post a billboard shot made with an old Kodak disc camera and it would probably look just as good. Now billboards are just huge late-sized pixelations anyway. I'm was out on the trail last Saturday. Parked my truck in the main Pt Reyes visitor
center parking lot along with several hundred other people all headed the same direction with their cellphone cameras. Naturally, I go exactly the opposite direction and find near total solitude the whole afternoon amidst spectacular wildflowers. When I got back to my truck in the evening and started lifting off my big pack with long camera rails sticking out the sides and a Ries wooden tripod strapped to the back, there was a little Chinese man sitting on the adjacent car bumper holding a little girl. "Sinar?", he asks. Apparently this was the only term we knew in common. He didn't speak a word of English. So I nod my head for yes, and he gives a smile of approval back. So I guess
not everyone is a billboard stooge and knows the difference between a camera and a toy.
center parking lot along with several hundred other people all headed the same direction with their cellphone cameras. Naturally, I go exactly the opposite direction and find near total solitude the whole afternoon amidst spectacular wildflowers. When I got back to my truck in the evening and started lifting off my big pack with long camera rails sticking out the sides and a Ries wooden tripod strapped to the back, there was a little Chinese man sitting on the adjacent car bumper holding a little girl. "Sinar?", he asks. Apparently this was the only term we knew in common. He didn't speak a word of English. So I nod my head for yes, and he gives a smile of approval back. So I guess
not everyone is a billboard stooge and knows the difference between a camera and a toy.
That's funny I joined TZ in 2004.
Yeah, it's rather a bizarre hobby/lifestyle but it's a fascination with old world, mechanical gears and wheels essentially, mixed in with greed, luxury, prestige, and all our other foibles. Considering a $50 quartz watch is more accurate.
The old world aspect is reminiscent of here actually. Old processes. Nostalgic, romantic and apparently worth warring over.
Confucius, I'm guessing?
Think that's Japanese.
Please engage sense of humour when reading my posts....
It was engaged. I loved it. It was better than mine, except for the nationality part.
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why is everything but a large format camera "a toy" ?
not everyone likes, or cares about LF / 8x10 or micro technique or taking 1 hour per view,
there is some terrible 8x10 photography .. and terrible stuff made from a celphone, i won't argue there.
it has to do with who is taking it, not the thing they are taking it with ...
and you are right, it would be possible to rent a billboard with a disc camera photo
thatis what i said on the first page. at least in the northeast, it costs about 300$ for the artwork and depending on
the visiblity ( circulation ) and the size of the board the price changes.
Sorry but I think I agree with Drew here. I also think all cameras, except Large Format cameras, are just toys.
I've yet to own a real camera. I only own toys (35mm, medium format.)
I have a 4x5 but that's just toy-ish.
Compensating, probably.
I must have missed the mention of the brand name of the backpack.
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I have a couple of totally mechanical Nikons I do not regard as toys, but most electronic Nikons, either film or digi are basically toys. They
look and feel like model airplane plastic. I learned all about that as a little kid. If I got sick with the flu or measles etc, I'd spend a whole week putting together some plastic model ship. The more intricate detail the better. Then I'd put it afloat on the pond with a cherry bomb on it, or perhaps aim a twelve gauge shotgun. Cell phones simply do not work for that kind of fun since they tend to sink, so they're better for skipping across the pond. But some billboard viewed from a quarter mile away for a couple of second before rear-ending another car is hardly an endorsement of image quality. Nor is an ad 4 inches wide in a Natl Geo Magazine. Yeah, they show show detail blowups, but the tonality still looks like hell. It's a toy. Admit it. Besides, this is APUG. If you want to sing the praises of your new thousand dollar digital
Dick Tracy secret decoder ring with live stock market graphs, GPS-guided missle launcher, and built-in spy camera, then go brag about it
somewhere else. I'd probably just confuse the thing for a pebble accidentally in my boot and give it a toss.
look and feel like model airplane plastic. I learned all about that as a little kid. If I got sick with the flu or measles etc, I'd spend a whole week putting together some plastic model ship. The more intricate detail the better. Then I'd put it afloat on the pond with a cherry bomb on it, or perhaps aim a twelve gauge shotgun. Cell phones simply do not work for that kind of fun since they tend to sink, so they're better for skipping across the pond. But some billboard viewed from a quarter mile away for a couple of second before rear-ending another car is hardly an endorsement of image quality. Nor is an ad 4 inches wide in a Natl Geo Magazine. Yeah, they show show detail blowups, but the tonality still looks like hell. It's a toy. Admit it. Besides, this is APUG. If you want to sing the praises of your new thousand dollar digital
Dick Tracy secret decoder ring with live stock market graphs, GPS-guided missle launcher, and built-in spy camera, then go brag about it
somewhere else. I'd probably just confuse the thing for a pebble accidentally in my boot and give it a toss.
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Back to OP's original topic of discussion, the iPhone 6 or whatever, is most likely something you'll be carrying on you at all times. Who said "the best camera is the one you have with you"? That's how good of a camera it is. There are many situations where a photographer doesn't have the luxury of time for the sort of deliberateness that is required for a larger format. No matter how deep your pockets are, you aren't keeping an 8x10 camera in there.
They all end this way, with those who were trying to have a serious discussion just quietly melting away...
Ken
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huh
i have a lot of different types of cameras, and i don't think any of them are toys.
not even a 7x21 camera i made .. i think cameras are fun to use, like a toy is fun to use
but that is about it ... its too bad photography has such snobism built into it,
whether it is format snobism, process snobism or media snobism.
i am as serious as the next person making photographs but i don't draw a line in the sand and
claim someone is playing with a toy, not a camera ...
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i agree, the best camera is the one you might have with you, and since a lot of people in modern/western internet ready, "me-based" (i)Society for the most part have a phone with them
they have a camera with them too so they can make snapshots, exactly what a box camera, instamatic, folder, pocket strut, hawkeye,&c were, snapshot cameras ..
the OP's original complaint i dont' think was that a cellphone shouldn't be used for snapshots
but the thread sort of morphed into the idea that a cellphone cameras have dumbed-down photography and made the mediocre OK, and celebrated it ... most of photography has already been mediocre
and it has been celebrated for decades, probably since the original brownies were sold by george eastman in the 1880s.
and there have still advertisements for handy p/shoot or anyother kinds of cameras either on billboards, or magazines, trade magazines, photographic annuals &c for as long as ads for cameras
have been sold to the public. advertising the democraticision of photography has been a constant thing. the iphone ads are just the current version of it.
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couldn't agree more with more tamara. its too bad ..
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