On the care of 35mm film: freezing/thawing...

Dean Taylor · Apr 30, 2015

hello

We have some Ilford (as well as some Ektar 100) we'd like to stow in the freezer, but wanted to check with the pros regarding the proper procedure--specifically, avoiding ice crystals, condensation, etc., forming on the film.

Do you wrap the film in freezer paper?

Also, when you are ready to use, do you transition to the fridge, or simply place on a countertop to stabilize before use?

thank you...

Dean

Rick A · Apr 30, 2015

I use zip lock freezer bags to stow film in the freezer.

Sirius Glass · Apr 30, 2015

For the freezer, keep in original packaging that has not been opened. If it has been opened then it goes into a zip lock bag and into the refrigerator rather than the freezer. Either way allow at least an hour [or more] to equilibrate the temperature.

JLP · Apr 30, 2015

Freezer bags but if your film already is in plastic containers i would not worry about bags except that is easier to keep them all together.
I usually allow a couple of hours to adjust to room temperature but have done less with no ill effect.

Ricardo Miranda · May 1, 2015

We have some Ilford (as well as some Ektar 100) we'd like to stow in the freezer

Why do you want to put film in a freezer?
It doesn't need to. Use the film as it meant to.
There is an expiry date. Film doesn't need fridge or freezer, unless you leave in a very hot area.

georg16nik · May 1, 2015

Zip lock freezer bags are good enough. The important part is that the RH when you put your films in the zip lock freezer bags should be between 40% to 60%.
Attached are some helpful tables from ISO 18928.

I.G.I. · May 1, 2015

Dean Taylor said:
Also, when you are ready to use, do you transition to the fridge, or simply place on a countertop to stabilize before use?

thank you...

Dean

As far as I can recall from my studies in chemistry and cryogenic procedures, defrost should be as gradual as possible, and the best practice at home is to move the thing from the freezer to the lowest section of the fridge for an overnight; in contrast the freezing process should be as quick as possible, reaching down to a min. of -18°C -- in other words, in a domestic freezer better refrigerate small quantities at a time than bulk of stuff at once.

Dean Taylor · May 1, 2015

thank you all!

Dean

mgb74 · May 1, 2015

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Ektar c41 should not be frozen.

removed account4 · May 1, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Why do you want to put film in a freezer?
It doesn't need to. Use the film as it meant to.
There is an expiry date. Film doesn't need fridge or freezer, unless you leave in a very hot area.

i'd be careful saying that stuff the film police will draw and quarter you !
that said, i couldn't agree with you more, even mr bill, who worked for
an enormous portrait company in their lab did experiments which
suggested the same thing. he and his lab-mates made a hot-box
and put film through extremes and it was impressive how well
the film held up. that all said, if one wants to put film in the fridge
it is probably better than the freezer in a ziplock bag, maybe with an anti desiccant of some sort
to keep the humidity low ...

as with everything YMMV

Sirius Glass · May 1, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Why do you want to put film in a freezer?
It doesn't need to. Use the film as it meant to.
There is an expiry date. Film doesn't need fridge or freezer, unless you leave in a very hot area.

Freezing film extends the useful life of the film. I only have decades of experience with this plus it is the advice I was given at Kodak when I worked there. Unless you know more about film then Kodak, I am willing to nominate you for having you shot, hung, drawn and quartered by the film police.

Xmas · May 1, 2015

Any free moisture will destroy film immediately.
Zip lock bag, fresh desiccant, salad drawer of fridge is maybe ok.
Plastic 35mm tube are not a hermetic seal.

Saganich · May 1, 2015

My wife has about 5 bricks of Fuji print film in the refrigerator (cheese draw) but went digital years ago. I have been pulling the film out and re-rolling my bulk triX. I noticed that right after pulling the film out of the can, condensate forms on the surface and dissipates in a few seconds.

Ko.Fe. · May 1, 2015

RTFM and Google helps!

Kodak Ektar 100 DS:

For long-term storage, keep negatives at atemperature between 2°C (35° F) and 13°C (55° F) and ata relative humidity between 30 and 35 percent.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e4046/e4046.pdf

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20106281054152313.pdf
STORAGEStore HP5 Plus in a cool (1020°C/50-68oF), dryplace in its original packaging.

But I dumped bulk of old Kodak 50D into the freezer, simply because I have not enough space in the small refrigerator which I'm using to store most of my films.

M Carter · May 1, 2015

My last few precious rolls of EPJ (320T) are in their original packages, double-bagged in the freezer. Been in there for years. Someday I'll let you know how it all turned out! Favorite color film of all time (when pushed 2 or 3 or 4 stops anyway)...

Paul Verizzo · May 3, 2015

I've been freezing my film for many, many years. Why? To slow down the auto-degradation beyond what refrigeration does. I'm guessing that freezing just totally stops it.

All this concern about zip locks, and tender thawing is hogwash. If the film is in it's original protective packaging, what does a baggie do? Nothing, other than for organizing, which is what I do.

I take the film out, leave it room temperature for twenty minutes, it's good to go. Condensation would only be an issue if still cold when putting it in a camera.

As a matter of "I might as well because I have it," I keep it in a a super size Sima lead bag. Might stop a bit of stray radiation or NSA snooping, dunno.

removed account4 · May 3, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
I've been freezing my film for many, many years. Why? To slow down the auto-degradation beyond what refrigeration does. I'm guessing that freezing just totally stops it.

freezing is supposedly done to shield from "cosmic rays" which according to a phycist i talk to once in a while is less of a concern than people suggest it is.
not sure that freezing film halts degradation... maybe it is more peace of mind that at least you are being proactive in the preservation of the film you love to use &c ... ?

YMMV

georg16nik · May 3, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
I've been freezing my film for many, many years. Why? To slow down the auto-degradation beyond what refrigeration does. I'm guessing that freezing just totally stops it.

All this concern about zip locks, and tender thawing is hogwash. If the film is in it's original protective packaging, what does a baggie do? Nothing, other than for organizing, which is what I do.

I take the film out, leave it room temperature for twenty minutes, it's good to go. Condensation would only be an issue if still cold when putting it in a camera.

As a matter of "I might as well because I have it," I keep it in a a super size Sima lead bag. Might stop a bit of stray radiation or NSA snooping, dunno.

Solid piece of misinformation.
Good luck, you will need it.

cmacd123 · May 4, 2015

I do recall one of the Kodak people actively recommending AGAINST freezing Ektar.

Ilford was asked on APUG and recommended refrigeration protects about as well as freezing. Check the data sheet of each film to see the lowest storage temperature. if it is +4C then don't freeze. if it is -18C freeze away.

Seal in plastic bags and allow the film to reach room temperature before opening the bags.

Paul Verizzo · May 6, 2015

georg16nik said:
Solid piece of misinformation.
Good luck, you will need it.

Oh, yes, my three decades of doing this without the slightest issue means nothing. So when will I start needing this luck?

I am perpetually amazed at the refusal of some people to accept objective, empirical evidence over their mythologies.

georg16nik · May 7, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
Oh, yes, my three decades of doing this without the slightest issue means nothing. So when will I start needing this luck?

I am perpetually amazed at the refusal of some people to accept objective, empirical evidence over their mythologies.

“Objective, empirical evidence”, Rambo?

Well, in your first post You've “been freezing film for many, many years” but you “guess”.
Then “zip locks, and tender thawing is hogwash” and finally “I take the film out, leave it at room temperature for twenty minutes, it's good to go.”...

So, you are taking your films out of sub-zero freezer, leave them at room temp (Sarasota, Florida) for 20 minutes and you are good to go?
Let's say the temp difference between your freezer and room is 40°C (104 degrees Fahrenheit).
For such temp difference the ISO standard recommends a minimum of 3 to 5 hours for single 35mm roll and 30 to 45 hours for a box of 10 35mm rolls (check the table in my first post).

My experience is in agreement with the ISO standard.

While your films need only 20 minutes for optimal freezer to room temperature acclimatization.
These are some superfilms, like the ones used on the Moon surface or how does that work - parallel, alternate reality?

Like I already said, good luck.

Paul Verizzo · May 7, 2015

@georg: You can believe what you want, do I care? BTW, the freezer isn't sub-zero, but zero F. Just to be annoying............

Why would I care about some ISO standard? Who made them God of my film?

A 35mm cassette with film has almost no latent heat. It comes to temperature in about 20 minutes. And really, the only thing that matters is condensation. So, any temperature above the dew point is fine.

Moon films? What are you drinking, sir?

removed account4 · May 7, 2015

does it really matter that much ?
if you ask me, freeze your films, put them in the fridge, leave them out ont on a shelf in your basement,
if it is what you like to do, then do it ... , i'm not sure why it matters so much that people have to trash talk others
because they don't do something the same as you , or him or me or the iso standards, or what kodak says or ilford or nasa or anyone else ,
me? i use whatever i tend ot have on hand off the shelf ( room temperature ), and don't worry about it.
it works for me, it doesn't work for someone else? souinds good to me, just buy your film and do what you want with it ...

i guess another thraed soon to be on ignore ...:munch:

Paul Verizzo · May 7, 2015

Actually, I'm hoping to find out what Georg is drinking. Or, smoking. I want some!

jnanian, although not stated, that was my point. Despite predictions of disaster, it works for me. Just fine. I would suppose that it would for everyone else, based on my experience.

georg16nik · May 7, 2015

Paul Verizzo said:
@georg: You can believe what you want, do I care? BTW, the freezer isn't sub-zero, but zero F. Just to be annoying............

Why would I care about some ISO standard? Who made them God of my film?....

Your film manufacturer keep up with ISO standards. Even when you don't care about it, certain scientific laws still applies to your film.
The storage conditions for before/after expiry date are evaluated by some competent folks somewhere, somehow, no?

On the care of 35mm film: freezing/thawing...

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