Olympus v Nikon

Autonerd said:

Haven't read all the replies so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Nikon lens compatibility is something of a mine field. The lenses may mount but they don't all work and some can actually damage the cameras. I have a Nikkor 50 that works on every Nikkormat/Nikon camera I own (no matrix metering with the N8008s) -- but my 28 will mount but doesn't stop down on any but the old FT2. It's a far cry from my Pentax lenses which fit *and work* on every Pentax SLR I own -- as well as my Ricoh and Sears cameras.

Anyway.

If that glass is worth money, and you don't want to switch to Nikon, you could sell it and buy more lenses.

Nothing wrong with Nikon, I like most of my Nikon cameras just fine and the lenses are great. But I'm also happy with my Pentax and Minolta cameras (and those Minoltas are *killer* bargains with great glass). Olympus is one SLR brand I have never owned or experienced.

Aaron

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Thanks. Yes. It has been mentioned. A minefield is an apt description based on what I have read so far. I need to sit down on the weekend and really work it all out.

The Zeiss lenses can be sold, but at probably half the price. So I will be losing a good part of 1000£ on the transaction. I think Nikon is the right choice now, as all I need to get is a fast 50mm and I am pretty much good to go (together with the 100mm and 28mm Zeiss lenses).

So far I am ruling out the fm3a (too expensive) and post-F3 Fs.

Once I have figured out the lens and finder compat issue, then it looks like it is going be a F2 or FM2 v F3 or FE decision.

The compatibility issue is with Non AI Nikon lenses and trying to mount those on an AI (auto aperture indexing body) that does NOT have an aperture feeler that can be swung out of the way.

As you have Zeiss lenses, they are AI so they will work on any Nikon from FM/FE forwards. So FM/FM2/FM2n/FE/FE2/FA/FG/F2/F3/F4/F5/F6 etc.
Heads up on the F2 - I already mentioned this but but my F2s with metered heads -DP1 and DP12 (F2AS) were defective/worn out and the meters had to be repaired. So if you go that way, really test it first to make sure it works. Age and use does that. My FM and FM2 are perfect, no issues. F3s can have lcd bleed in the VF.

Bob Bibab said:

I think Nikon is the right choice now, as all I need to get is a fast 50mm and I am pretty much good to go (together with the 100mm and 28mm Zeiss lenses).

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I use a Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-D lens with my Zeiss 28mm f/2 ZF (left) and my Zeiss 135mm f/2 ZF lens (right) on my Nikon F2, F4, EM, N70, and N2000 film cameras. With adapters, I also use those lenses on my digital cameras.

My 50mm manually focuses very well on all my bodies. My 50mm also auto focuses very well om my auto focus F4 and N70 bodies.

Zeiss Lenses by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Nikon F4 & N70 with 50mm by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Bob Bibab said:

....A minefield is an apt description based on what I have read so far. I need to sit down on the weekend and really work it all out.

Once I have figured out the lens and finder compat issue, then it looks like it is going be a F2 or FM2 v F3 or FE decision.

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If you are limiting yourself to manual focus lenses, then the Nikon mount compatibility issue It's not really that difficult...it's quite simple in fact. Except in a few special cases, pre-AI lenses do not mount (can damage!) newer camera bodies that are designed for AI lenses and any AI lens with rabbit ears will also work on the older, pre-AI bodies. In summary, newer AI lenses work with older pre-AI bodies but pre-AI lenses generally do not work with newer AI bodies (The FE for example, is an exception). That's it. It is really quite simple.

So, if you have manual focus AI lenses, then just get a newer AI body like the FM, FM2, FM2n, FM3a, FE, FE2, F2AS, F3, etc...
The F2A is also designed for AI lenses but, like I said earlier, if having a built-in light meter is important to you, don't bother with the F2A because the light meter in the DP-11 finder (which is what makes an F2 an F2A) uses CDS cells and at this age, they are mostly not accurate any more and are (for some reason) expensive, $125 to have replaced.

narsuitus said:

I use a Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-D lens with my Zeiss 28mm f/2 ZF (left) and my Zeiss 135mm f/2 ZF lens (right) on my Nikon F2, F4, EM, N70, and N2000 film cameras. With adapters, I also use those lenses on my digital cameras.

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And of course if you used a Digital Nikon SLR, you would not need any adapters!

BradS said:

If you are limiting yourself to manual focus lenses, then the Nikon mount compatibility issue It's not really that difficult...it's quite simple in fact. Except in a few special cases, pre-AI lenses do not mount (can damage!) newer camera bodies that are designed for AI lenses and any AI lens with rabbit ears will also work on the older, pre-AI bodies. In summary, newer AI lenses work with older pre-AI bodies but pre-AI lenses generally do not work with newer AI bodies (The FE for example, is an exception). That's it. It is really quite simple.

So, if you have manual focus AI lenses, then just get a newer AI body like the FM, FM2, FM2n, FM3a, FE, FE2, F2AS, F3, etc...
The F2A is also designed for AI lenses but, like I said earlier, don't bother because the light meter in the DP-11 finder (which is what makes and F2 an F2A) uses CDS cells and at this age, they are mostly not accurate any more and are (for some reason) expensive, $125 to have replaced.

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Brad, who replaces/services the DP1/2/11 finders in the US?

Huss said:

Brad, who replaces/services the DP1/2/11 finders in the US?

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Last I checked, Steve Gandy at CameraQuest.com will overhaul the Nikon DP-xx finders but he mentions that the resistor rings are no longer available (and I see his prices have gone up!)
https://www.cameraquest.com/repairs.htm

eBay seller, 'nikon1cds' (his real name is Marc) also works on Nikon F2 bodies and finders. He overhauled my Nikon F2SB for a very reasonable price.


Added later.... I see you are in Venice. Steve Gandy is here in California too!

Thanks Brad! $150 for the DP1 repair, if possible, isn't really worth it. Not saying he's charging too much just I'll use my DE1 head instead.

Understood. Thanks. I only very quickly read the replies during the week, as I was going to go through them all on the weekend, and I realised I may have misunderstood a few things and also didn't realise some of the issues some had raised were already answered by others. Still, choosing is going to be tricky.

Nikon made a film SLR system for over 50 years (in principle, they are still selling them and the lenses). And because it was a highly used professional system, there are an incredibly large number of options and special cases. One could spend a moderately large amount of time just trying to understand the ins and outs of F2 prism names, let alone all the variety of other accessories. But that can also be time away from taking pictures. One approach would be just to get something that is proven and "most often compatible," for which I would suggest an FM or FE. Then you can take some time to figure out all the other details later.

Ken Rockwell's table of Nikon lens compatibility is probably the easiest to refer to when you have a question: https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/compatibility-lens.htm

Olympus is easier to deal with because the OM manual focus mount never changed, but by the same token, the system is less extensive and doesn't reach into the AF era.

Bob Bibab said:

Understood. Thanks. I only very quickly read the replies during the week, as I was going to go through them all on the weekend, and I realised I may have misunderstood a few things and also didn't realise some of the issues some had raised were already answered by others. Still, choosing is going to be tricky.

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BTW, in selecting a Nikon body, you may be considering one with aperture priority mode. Beware that on the following models - F3, FA, FE2 and FG, when you insert a new roll of film, the shutter speed is set to sync speed and will not change regardless of aperture or shutter speed setting. Nikon took it upon itself to save you the hassle of getting some long exposure time when trying to advance the frame counter to 1 in case you forget you were in aperture priority mode. I call this a nanny feature. They corrected this in the FM3A by not incorporating this feature.
Also, the F3 has the single wost LCD backlighting feature with the tiniest and hardest switch to turn it on even though it is well placed.
The F3 does have a great motor drive that also provides power to the camera if the batteries in the body dies. AFAIK, all other manual cameras with a motor drive still require their internal batteries to be good.
Also, the F, F2 & F3 have their own non-traditional flash mounts and the F3 does have TTL flash. There is a special adapter for the F3 that allows using the traditional flash mount with TTL functionality.

Les Sarile said:

BTW, in selecting a Nikon body, you may be considering one with aperture priority mode. Beware that on the following models - F3, FA, FE2 and FG, when you insert a new roll of film, the shutter speed is set to sync speed and will not change regardless of aperture or shutter speed setting. Nikon took it upon itself to save you the hassle of getting some long exposure time when trying to advance the frame counter to 1 in case you forget you were in aperture priority mode. I call this a nanny feature. They corrected this in the FM3A by not incorporating this feature.
Also, the F3 has the single wost LCD backlighting feature with the tiniest and hardest switch to turn it on even though it is well placed.
The F3 does have a great motor drive that also provides power to the camera if the batteries in the body dies. AFAIK, all other manual cameras with a motor drive still require their internal batteries to be good.
Also, the F, F2 & F3 have their own non-traditional flash mounts and the F3 does have TTL flash. There is a special adapter for the F3 that allows using the traditional flash mount with TTL functionality.

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The F3P and F3Ltd allow you to shoot at any shutter speed when loading, and have regular hotshot mounts on the prism (as well as the weird one over the rewind crank).

Huss said:

The F3P and F3Ltd allow you to shoot at any shutter speed when loading, and have regular hotshot mounts on the prism (as well as the weird one over the rewind crank).

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It's good that Nikon saw the error of their ways and corrected the nanny control . . .
Interesting cameras that since Nikon had to add electrical contacts to the body/finder in order to add the ISO hot shoe, they didn't add enough to implement TTL flash.
In anycase since those are in the price range of the FM3A, probably not good candidates either.

Les Sarile said:

It's good that Nikon saw the error of their ways and corrected the nanny control . . .
Interesting cameras that since Nikon had to add electrical contacts to the body/finder in order to add the ISO hot shoe, they didn't add enough to implement TTL flash.
In anycase since those are in the price range of the FM3A, probably not good candidates either.

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I think the low flash sync speed of the F3 is much more offensive than lack of TTL!

Bob Bibab said:

Once I have figured out the lens and finder compat issue, then it looks like it is going be a F2 or FM2 v F3 or FE decision.

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From my casual search, it seems your Zeiss lenses are Ai type Nikon lenses so you will want bodies that will meter with them and those include the F2A, F2AS, F3, FT3, EL2 FM, FM2, FE, FE2, FA and FG. You can read about all of these at http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/photography.htm
The FT3 and EL2 are Nikormats and were the non-pro versions of the F's before Olympus OM1/2 were released that forced Nikon into making the smaller and lighter FM/FE series.
The difference between the FM/FE & FM2/FE2 are higher sync and shutter speeds + TTL flash on the FE2 only.
The FA has the features of the FM2/FE2 + Program mode and Matrix metering.
The FG is an amazingly full featured camera that was better then the EM before it and FG20 after it and all three were the cheapest way to get into the Nikon mount.

Huss said:

I think the low flash sync speed of the F3 is much more offensive than lack of TTL!

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Interestingly enough, the earlier released Minolta XK has the highest sync speed of 1/100 of the horizontal travel shutter types in a pro camera.



Fortunately for us today, we can use high powered LEDs and Lithium batteries allow us to sync at any speed! I rigged one up using a 100watt LED with Lithium batteries but there are now even much higher wattage types - portable suns, both in light and heat!



Of course the Olympus OM4 can sync at all shutter speeds with an F280 flash!

Thanks again everyone. Done a fair bit of reading now and I am now leaning towards either The FE or the FE2. I cannot see a reason to get an F3 other than the 100% viewfinder (which is actually a big deal to me) and the fact that the heavier camera may better balance the oversized Zeiss lenses. The ruggedness difference doesn't seem to be a big deal in practice based on comments. However, the FE/FE2 seem to have two advantages. One is the size and weight. The other is that I think they display the meter info in a more useful way ( have I got this right?) - the matches needle thing seems to be a lot better than the + - method as you don't know how far off you are with the latter. Correct me if I have got any of this wrong please as I have never held one of these cameras or used a camera with any of these features before.

The prices for the F3s seem to be all over the place in the EU. I am seeing F3s actually sold between £150 and £600 on eBay. A clean FE can be had for around £150. And a Clean FE2 for just over £200.

The FE2 and the FE seem to be much of the same. I am not fussed having to look for an AI lens for the FE2. Not sure how big a deal the 2000/4000 speeds are. I can't remember the last time I shot at such high shutter speeds or used flash (though I may want to start experimenting with flash in the future). I have read that the FE2 has a new mirror design which results in noticeably less vibration than the FE. Which sounds like a big advantage to me (though some in this thread have said they don't think vibration is an issue with any of these cameras). Has anyone actually noticed this?

Regarding that nanny mode, how big a problem is this in the FE2? Does it actually result in you losing frames or is it only over the bit of the film already exposed?

Given the above mentioned prices, do you agree the FE2 is the right choice or do you think the FE or the F3 offer better value? And is it a risk buying these cameras over eBay? Can I realistically test any of these cameras for issues (e.g. meter or shutter accuracy) in a shop?

I am also confident now that the Zeiss lenses are AI as some of you have already confirmed above. I was a bit worried at first because I had to manually enter the max apperture number in my D700 camera for these lenses (as I have the ZF, rather than the ZF2 version), but I understand now that this is because digital cameras lack the mechanical feature of the Nikon analogue cameras that allows this information to be passed on without manual input. I think this means that the ZF lens is not AI-P, but is nevertheless AI.

Huss said:

I have both those, and they are my favorite SLRs! (I have other cameras too..)

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I have both of those too and neither is my favorite. For about the same money when they were new I rather pick the KX or MX than the ME (the LX doesn't count as it's of the higher league).
I would rather use the F3 or F5 than the F4.

Chan Tran said:

I have both of those too and neither is my favorite. For about the same money when they were new I rather pick the KX or MX than the ME (the LX doesn't count as it's of the higher league).
I would rather use the F3 or F5 than the F4.

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I have the K2, P3T and MX as well as the ME, and the MX is the least favorite out of those.
I have an F3P and an F3Ltd as well as the F4 and F6 (and F2s and Fs) and the F3 is my least favourite. From that miserable floppy mess of a film winder to that terrible exposure readout in the VF. I only have them because they are pretty and impress other F3 users.
I ignored the F5 because I did not like the size, doesn't matrix meter with manual lenses, and the fact that all I looked at had electrical issues.

Bob Bibab said:

So far I am ruling out the fm3a (too expensive) and post-F3 Fs.

Once I have figured out the lens and finder compat issue, then it looks like it is going be a F2 or FM2 v F3 or FE decision.

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Yes the FM3A is definitely pricey. Its specs are good, but one of the biggest drawbacks is the vewfinder only has 93% coverage, which IMO is a bit poor for a 35mm SLR, especially one costing that much. The price you pay for a smaller body/prism I guess. The pro "F" series cameras all have 100% coverage.

GLS said:

The pro "F" series cameras all have 100% coverage.

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I believe they are the only manual SLRs with a 100% viewfinder. Canon only started this with their EOS1 and I'm not aware when others did or if they did.

I find this thread very interesting, as I am right now toying with the idea of picking up an FM3a. One concern I have is repairability. I understand Nikon USA does still repair them. Do they limit their repairs to FM3a's officially imported into the US? It seems nearly everything on Ebay is coming out of Japan. Also, I can't imagine Nikon will be supporting the camera for very much longer. So in a few years, will parts be available, expensive parts, say like new shutters? I understand that Nikon is cutting their agreement with Authorized Repair Shops. Will my local repairman be able to buy parts? If I buy an FM2 and something later breaks, there are millions of cameras in circulation to act as parts donors. Different situation with the Fm3a. Too expensive to act as a donor, right?

Unless you beat it to death, I doubt you'll worry about repairing an FM3A anytime soon. You intend to shoot 250K frames of film through it in your lifetime . . .

Les Sarile said:

Unless you beat it to death, I doubt you'll worry about repairing an FM3A anytime soon. You intend to shoot 250K frames of film through it in your lifetime . . .

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Well, I wasn't thinking that I might wear out an FM3a, I was considering the possibility that there is a breakdown, a defect. It is a complicated mechanism. User FMs and FE's are so numerous they're practically disposable. That won't be the case with the FM3a. Suppose I put my fingers through the shutter? Stupid stuff happens. Where will the new shutter come from? Will there be an adequate supply of parts for the next twenty years?

Acticus said:

Stupid stuff happens.

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I've seen that on a bumper sticker . . .