Old masters of composition in the direction of film photography

[Deleted member 88956]

Stanley Kubrick is known for the look of his movies - and he did start out as a still photographer - but how important was he, and how important was his Director of Photography.
For example, should we ignore Kubrick and credit Gilbert Taylor entirely for the look of Dr. Strangelove?

If you are talking to my post, what I said was that GREAT DP is hired for the eye he brings in, not to run camera as director tells him. When great director works with great PD, they obviously have mutual respect, but that builds over time. Some director have their favored DP and vice versa, that makes usually great film in the end. Same applies to composer as music is just as important in making a film what it becomes in the end.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Barton Fink and Hud Sucker owes their look to storyboarding and set design/location scouting. What's left to and done by the cinematographer is quite standard.

Looks like DP is just a moron hired to trigger camera.

DP is right into the setting before any shooting starts including camera location, angle, perspective relationships, colors, lighting etc.

Film 101 - good read, even if most of it is plain standard knowledge for anyone following movie making at its basics.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Ditector Steven Spielberg and DP Janusz Kaminski always collaborate. And they only use film. Spielberg trusts this DP which is why he uses him so much.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Ditector Steven Spielberg and DP Janusz Kaminski always collaborate. And they only use film. Spielberg trusts this DP which is why he uses him so much.

That is DP's job to make the "look" of a film. Director picks one based on his own criteria and there are tandems that collaborated for years as they have a matching minds and surely each other's respect.

Suggesting that DP has little to do with what we end up seeing on screen is just ludicrous.

 

[Helge]

Looks like DP is just a moron hired to trigger camera.

DP is right into the setting before any shooting starts including camera location, angle, perspective relationships, colors, lighting etc.

Film 101 - good read, even if most of it is plain standard knowledge for anyone following movie making at its basics.

No, that is the operator and focus puller you’re talking about.

What part of what I wrote did you think betrayed my belief that the DP is a chimp pressing a button?
I explicitly wrote that I didn’t think the composition and lighting was anything special. But that the set design was good.
Some sets are designed to be shot a certain number of ways, which leaves little creative freedom to the DP.
Some of the shots posted here was clearly examples of such.

 

[Helge]

That is DP's job to make the "look" of a film. Director picks one based on his own criteria and there are tandems that collaborated for years as they have a matching minds and surely each other's respect.

Suggesting that DP has little to do with what we end up seeing on screen is just ludicrous.

It depends entirely on the particular director and the relationship with the DP.
Guys like Carpenter, Kubrick and Hitchcock leave little up to the DP, because they have a very clear idea of what they want.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

It depends entirely on the particular director and the relationship with the DP.
Guys like Carpenter, Kubrick and Hitchcock leave little up to the DP, because they have a very clear idea of what they want.

Let me say this: I don't know where you got that from, but if I were an up and coming DP, I'd be thrilled to be on top director's roster at any position, even as a young DP and would likely follow him than try to be on my own line of thought. Soon after ANY ambitious DP will make own stamp and he grows this will become more and more of clear distinction. I'm sure there are directors that are control freaks and no matter who ends up on the team, becomes at best second tear employee. But that doesn't work and if as director I not only want a good DP, but also one who has own vision, can argue it and be capable of making it his. While Oscars have become political nut jobs for a good couple of decades now, they've been giving the statue out to DP (and MD for that matter) for a reason.

I mentioned MD because with your logic music director also has little to do with music, just makes a band play without much say what it is they play.

 

[Helge]

Let me say this: I don't know where you got that from, but if I were an up and coming DP, I'd be thrilled to be on top director's roster at any position, even as a young DP and would likely follow him than try to be on my own line of thought. Soon after ANY ambitious DP will make own stamp and he grows this will become more and more of clear distinction. I'm sure there are directors that are control freaks and no matter who ends up on the team, becomes at best second tear employee. But that doesn't work and if as director I not only want a good DP, but also one who has own vision, can argue it and be capable of making it his. While Oscars have become political nut jobs for a good couple of decades now, they've been giving the statue out to DP (and MD for that matter) for a reason.

I mentioned MD because with your logic music director also has little to do with music, just makes a band play without much say what it is they play.

Again, it depends entirely on the director. Some directors simply have a very clear image of exactly what they want, and they want a DP who can execute that without much fuss.
They are rare, but they do exist.
Even rarer is directors who is their own DP.
And rarer still, is directors who compose some or all of the music for their films. Carpenter is one such well known director.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Ditector Steven Spielberg and DP Janusz Kaminski always collaborate. And they only use film. Spielberg trusts this DP which is why he uses him so much.

In "Saving Private Ryan", Spielberg wanted to make the opening scene of the Normandy invasion and other combat scenes very taught, to hold you in your seat. Kaminski came up with the idea of changing the normal shutter speed of the camera to a higher speed. That creates a staccato effect without deleting any of the actual frames. So for example, instead of shooting 24 frames per second at 1/50 for each frame, he changed it to 1/100 of a second for each of the 24 frames. I think he applied it only to the action portions leaving the regular shutter speed for personal interactions. It helped create the illusion of the fog of war where it seems you can't figure out what's happening as it happens. It's very discombobulated and makes you feel like you're in the action.

That's where a good DP can add a lot to the movie. Plus Kaminski is just a great craftsman with using film.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Here's the opening scene of the Normandy invasion. Another thing is the camera seems hand-held adding to the movement and confusion.

 

[Algo después]

Again, it depends entirely on the director. Some directors simply have a very clear image of exactly what they want, and they want a DP who can execute that without much fuss.
They are rare, but they do exist.

... sometimes it doesn't even depend on the director but on the corporation that handles the production. Something very common in industrial cinema for many decades. I understand the point that many times the degree of freedom that the DP has can be relative and therefore, sometimes it goes unnoticed or too conditioned, but in any case, said freedom will depend on how you sort your work to contribute with your unique look and Gain relevance and in meaningful productions. In Hollywood this is a tightrope where DPs almost always lose.

Now, when a film meets the standard of the producers, that is, became a commercial success, but at the same time it contains a certain cultural power, it is when these rare cases of specialists in the crew are filtered that earn a name and they do more than "frame" as mere technicians. That is why it is very rare to find such surprises in industrial cinema as opposed to auteur cinema. That is also why the work of Deakins seems recognizable to me, despite his permanent concessions.

 

[Algo después]

If you are talking to my post, what I said was that GREAT DP is hired for the eye he brings in, not to run camera as director tells him. When great director works with great PD, they obviously have mutual respect, but that builds over time. Some director have their favored DP and vice versa, that makes usually great film in the end. Same applies to composer as music is just as important in making a film what it becomes in the end.

there are many significant cases of these tandem. One simply cannot conceive of a Kaurismaki movie with Salminen, for example.

Ditector Steven Spielberg and DP Janusz Kaminski always collaborate. And they only use film. Spielberg trusts this DP which is why he uses him so much.

Spielberg is a complicated case, since if it comes to concessions, here is a name. I honestly don't know how many DPs he has worked with but I understand that with Kaminsky they start working on Schindler's list.

 

[Algo después]

...I'm still with the Coens. This is the third and last film on which Barry Sonnefeld worked with them. There is some fantastic flash close-up work here with use of wide angle lens and travellings that he then continues into his own directing career without much success.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

there are many significant cases of these tandem. One simply cannot conceive of a Kaurismaki movie with Salminen, for example.




Spielberg is a complicated case, since if it comes to concessions, here is a name. I honestly don't know how many DPs he has worked with but I understand that with Kaminsky they start working on Schindler's list.

Kaminski shot all of Spielberg's movies since 1993. This is a neat article where Kaminski describes his ideas and methods in various films including the opening scene in Saving Private Ryan.


Few men know Steven Spielberg as well as Janusz Kaminski. The Oscar winning, Polish-born cinematographer has shot all of Spielberg’s films since 1993,
https://www.vulture.com/2012/11/how...ographer-janusz-kaminski-got-these-shots.html

 

[halfaman]

Robert Yeoman told that 90% of the shots in Wes Anderson movies come from the storyboard, he has some freedom in the lightning but the rest is pretty much fixed and carefully reviewed by the director on stage. Robert has worked in every Wes Anderson film to date.

 

[Algo después]

Robert Yeoman told that 90% of the shots in Wes Anderson movies come from the storyboard, he has some freedom in the lightning but the rest is pretty much fixed and carefully reviewed by the director on stage. Robert has worked in every Wes Anderson film to date.

About this:




... and also Kubrick

 

[Algo después]

With regard to Kubrick (U.S. 1928-1999), a digression on the subject: when the director also has a career as a photographer..

 

[Algo después]

Wim Wenders (Germany, 1945)

Somewhat influenced The new German Topography perhaps?

 

[warden]

With regard to Kubrick, a digression on the subject: when the director also has a career as a photographer..

Thank you for this thread. I've been enjoying all the images you shared.

 

[Algo después]

Abbas Kiarostami (Iran, 1940-2016)

 

[Algo después]

Thank you for this thread. I've been enjoying all the images you shared.

You're welcome pal. Feel free to share those cases that you consider striking as well.

 

[MattKing]

I keep coming back to the still photographer Stanley Kubrick had on set during the filming of Dr. Strangelove - his good friend, Arthur Fellig (known by most as Weegee).
Just think of how many influences were involved in creating the look of that film!

 

[Algo después]

I keep coming back to the still photographer Stanley Kubrick had on set during the filming of Dr. Strangelove - his good friend, Arthur Fellig (known by most as Weegee).
Just think of how many influences were involved in creating the look of that film!

I had no idea that Weegee had worked with Kubrick, wow. I confess that I saw Dr Stangelove a couple of years ago but I think I was too tired when I saw it to be able to appreciate it. Now with this information, I think I will look at it with different eyes.

 

[Helge]

In "Saving Private Ryan", Spielberg wanted to make the opening scene of the Normandy invasion and other combat scenes very taught, to hold you in your seat. Kaminski came up with the idea of changing the normal shutter speed of the camera to a higher speed. That creates a staccato effect without deleting any of the actual frames. So for example, instead of shooting 24 frames per second at 1/50 for each frame, he changed it to 1/100 of a second for each of the 24 frames. I think he applied it only to the action portions leaving the regular shutter speed for personal interactions. It helped create the illusion of the fog of war where it seems you can't figure out what's happening as it happens. It's very discombobulated and makes you feel like you're in the action.

That's where a good DP can add a lot to the movie. Plus Kaminski is just a great craftsman with using film.

Not true. The effect was achieved with not a greater frame rate, which would have looked comical, but a narrower slit of the rotating shutter. Giving much less motion blur per frame than normally. Something you’d usually want to avoid. Instead using aperture, ND filters and lighting to control exposure.

SPR also used drastic bleach bypass to create the ostensibly “realistic atmosphere” for that sequence.

It was instrumental in creating that hellish, ossified, claustrophobic package of sanctioned grading looks we still have to “chose” from, and be content with today, as being “palateable” to the imaginary average mentally lazy idiot-audience by the rats nest of tie nots, that is the real hive mind behind 99% of all movies being made today.

 

[MattKing]

I had no idea that Weegee had worked with Kubrick, wow. I confess that I saw Dr Stangelove a couple of years ago but I think I was too tired when I saw it to be able to appreciate it. Now with this information, I think I will look at it with different eyes.

The Presentation House show referenced in this review was an absolute delight - I was so glad I had a chance to see it: https://www.straight.com/movies/394076/kubrick-weegee-and-strangelove-meet-again