Old Kodak/Carestream GBX X-Ray Film Fixer

[fdonadio]

A friend of mine gave me a shitload of old, long expired Kodak GBX fixer. It’s a rapid fixer for x-ray film and comes in liquid form.

The plastic bottles are warped and there is an opaque, very light, yellowed-white precipitate on the bottom, with some of it stuck to the bottle walls. If I give the bottle a good shake, it seems to dissolve, but precipitates again after a couple of hours.

I intend on doing a clip test anyway, but I must say I don’t think it’s good anymore.

I am very curious to know what substance(s) is(are) the most probable to have precipitated. Here goes the “formula”, from the MSDS:

Weight % - Component (CAS Registry No.)
Concentrate:
50-55 - Water (007732-18-5)
30-35 - Ammonium thiosulfate (007783-18-8)
1-5 - Sodium acetate (000127-09-3)
1-5 - Sodium bisulfite (007631-90-5)
1-5 - Ammonium sulfite (010196-04-0)
1-5 - Acetic acid (000064-19-7)
1-5 - Boric acid (010043-35-3)

What do you guys think?

Cheers,
Flavio

 

[KN4SMF]

Probably smell like rotten eggs too. The sulfite is there because the acid would cause precipitation of sulfur right away. But given enough time, it still throws down sulfur and the product is ruined for all intents and purposes. I have managed to salvage it to some degree by pouring off some to mix up and then adding more sulfite. But you can't know howstrong the working solution really is because you don't know how much if its sulfur got gone.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Do not use it!

PE

 

[KN4SMF]

Besides the hardener probably came in a part b bottle. And you surely can't process X ray or litho film without hardener. The film would scratch just to look at it.

 

[fdonadio]

Probably smell like rotten eggs too. The sulfite is there because the acid would cause precipitation of sulfur right away. But given enough time, it still throws down sulfur and the product is ruined for all intents and purposes. I have managed to salvage it to some degree by pouring off some to mix up and then adding more sulfite. But you can't know howstrong the working solution really is because you don't know how much if its sulfur got gone.

I didn’t even open a bottle yet, but the smell would be an obvious sign!

Thanks for the explanation. I guess it has gone bad. It’s just sad to see all of that fixer going to the trash (I am taking it to a chemical waste collection facility).

Cheers,
Flavio

 

[koraks]

And you surely can't process X ray or litho film without hardener. The film would scratch just to look at it.

You can and adding hardener to the fixer obviousy won't prevent scratching at all during processing. Once dry, the film doesn't scratch all that easily. I've processed hundreds of sheets of xray film and never used a hardening fixer.

 

[AgX]

A hardening fixer will change the gelatine already in its wet state.
Whether this has significant effect on scratchability is a different question.

 

[koraks]

It won't help during development and stop, that's for sure. Moreover, your final remark is particularly relevant - it's just not going to help much at all. The top coat on xray film is rather flimsy to begin with.

 

[fdonadio]

I opened one bottle and, although not as strong as I thought, it smells of ammonia and sulfur.

Regards,
Flavio

 

[Photo Engineer]

Your donor friend just didn't want to go to the waste dump and left you with the task.

Sorry about the fixer.

PE

 

[fdonadio]

Your donor friend just didn't want to go to the waste dump and left you with the task.

Sorry about the fixer.

No problem, Ron. I know the guy, he was really convinced he was doing something good.

Now, let’s see if I can get something out of this...

What does this precipitate contain? Is it pure sulfur or a lot of mixed substances? Could I filter it out and use it for something? I need Sodium Sulfide... could I make it from this?

Cheers,
Flavio

 

[Photo Engineer]

Nothing good can come from this AFAIK. It is a mess of Sulfur and Sulfur compounds.

PE

 

[fdonadio]

Wow...

Thanks again, Ron! I’m taking it for disposal as soon as I can.

Cheers,
Flavio

 

[koraks]

I think your best bet (if you want to go through the trouble of doing something with it) is doctoring it into some kind of sepia toner. You could probably make a working hypo alum toner from the mess. Major disadvantage is that that's a horribly slow toner indeed...

 

[fdonadio]

I think your best bet (if you want to go through the trouble of doing something with it) is doctoring it into some kind of sepia toner. You could probably make a working hypo alum toner from the mess. Major disadvantage is that that's a horribly slow toner indeed...

Thanks for the tips, koraks! I decided to stop tinkering with it.