Oil on shutter blades - d.i.y. or not?

[runswithsizzers]

I have a Konica T3n with a metal focal plane shutter that is leaving parts of some frames blank (unexposed). When I looked at the shutter to see which way the blades run (vertical) I noticed some oil on the blades.

I have already sent this camera back to the seller twice, and each time he fixes a problem, when I get it back there is a new problem. So if cleaning the shutter blades is something I can do myself, I would prefer to avoid sending it back.

Can I simply wipe down the blades with a cotton swab and some kind of solvent, or is there more to it than that?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I would try using lighter fluid, a cleaning stick (cotton swab) and firing until the oil is gone, as you mentioned.

It might also work to put a few drops of lighter fluid on the shutter and then work it through. The risk is that the shutter blades can get stuck if the oil and lighter fluid mix.

 

[Don_ih]

The problem is, that oil is coming from somewhere. So, cleaning the visible mechanism without disassembly will probably clean it good enough for a while, but then the oil (and the problem) comes back - probably when you're halfway through a roll of film.

You'd be better off taking it apart and cleaning the oil from around the shutter.

After quickly looking it up, it routinely suffers a number of lubrication-related issues, like the mirror becoming sluggish or the camera shutter tripping as soon as it's cocked.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

The problem is, that oil is coming from somewhere. So, cleaning the visible mechanism without disassembly will probably clean it good enough for a while, but then the oil (and the problem) comes back - probably when you're halfway through a roll of film.

You'd be better off taking it apart and cleaning the oil from around the shutter.

After quickly looking it up, it routinely suffers a number of lubrication-related issues, like the mirror becoming sluggish or the camera shutter tripping as soon as it's cocked.

I also think that such problems (similar to lenses) can only be permanently resolved with thorough cleaning and re-lubrication. But you should be aware of the risks that are always present when opening an (unknown) device.

Removing and installing a shutter requires the appropriate level of expertise.

From my own experience, I therefore recommend also alternative solutions to consider such as cleaning at regular intervals.

I also do the same with oily aperture blades on lenses where complete disassembly/reassembly in order to clean and relubricate is too risky for me.

This is relatively safe, as it is usually not critical when disassembling and reassembling.

 

[Don_ih]

Removing and installing a shutter requires the appropriate level of expertise.

That's true. But to make a camera work for an unknown amount of time means you can't trust it - which means you can't use it. So there's no point doing it. It's different with leaf shutters, because you can see that through the lens. The focal plane shutter can gum up while you have a roll of film in the camera and you won't know until that roll is finished.

 

[runswithsizzers]

@Andreas Thaler and @Don_ih, thanks for your replies.

The camera was last used in May (results posted above). I just now discovered the mirror is stuck in the up position -- which is the same problem I had last time. This happens whenever I press the shutter at any speed faster than 1/30th sec. While the mirror is stuck up, the shutter release does nothing. If I give the bottom of the camera a hard bump with the palm of my hand, the mirror will drop. The camera can then be operated normally at 1/30th sec or less. But at 1/60th and faster speeds, the mirror sticks up pretty much every time.

The seller previously "fixed" this problem well enough to work for one 24-exposure roll back in May.

It is now obvious that cleaning the oil from the shutter blades is not going to fix my problems, and some level of dissasembly will be required. While I have been fairly adventurous about attempting a wide variety of d.i.y. repairs over my lifetime, I am not enthusiastic about taking apart a camera. I can probably do it, but I'm not sure I want to invest the time it would take me to learn how to understand the mechanisms and do a proper repair. I would much rather spend my time taking photos with a reliable camera. ;-)

So now, I need to decide if I want to send it back to the seller for the third time, or if I should pay a different repair person for a CLA. The seller (Etsy), has some repair experience. Whenever he has a camera that uses mercury batteries, he puts in the meter diode for modern batteries. But the first time I sent it back, it was because the meter was often inaccurate by about 2 stops. So far, the seller has even paid for return postage, so he is willing, but I'm less sure about able. In the ten months I've owned the camera, I have only put three rolls of film through it, none of them without problems.

Can anyone recommend a professional camera repair person in the USA who would be competent to repair this camera?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

If the mirror gets stuck but falls back down when shaken, the cause could be resin or resin plus oil. This could be cleaned with lighter fluid.

I hope the seller did not try to solve the problem with oil alone. That would be an indication of the oil traces on the shutter.

 

[BrianShaw]

Perhaps you’re now in the position to declare the camera a lemon and request a refund. Seems like the seller is being responsible and trying to make it work for you… but just can’t. The seller may be agreeable that it’s just not worth either their or your time to keep trying to fix it. Unfortunately, some problems just need a complete and professional overhaul to correct.

If you want to get it fixed, contact Deans Camera Repair or Steve’s Camera Repair in the Los Angles area. There must be others worth asking too.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Perhaps you’re now in the position to declare the camera a lemon and request a refund. Seems like the seller is being responsible and trying to make it work for you… but just can’t. The seller may be agreeable that it’s just not worth either their or your time to keep trying to fix it. Unfortunately, some problems just need a complete and professional overhaul to correct.

If you want to get it fixed, contact Deans Camera Repair or Steve’s Camera Repair in the Los Angles area. There must be others worth asking too.

I believe your advice to return the camera is probably my best option, if the seller will agree to it. I am still waiting for his reply. If I liked the Konica T3n as much as I like my Konica T4, I would not mind spending the money to make it reliable -- but I don't. In the long run, think I would be happier with another T4.

I do really like my Konica lenses, but it doesn't look like they ever made a body on the same level(?)

 

[blee1996]

I have a Konica T3n and a TC, and I can tell the build quality of T3n is higher than TC. But the TC is more compact and lighter weight, so both serve different needs.

My T3n is in top condition, and I don't think it is lesser than their Nikon/Canon/Pentax/Minolta competitors from the same era. Maybe it was the Shutter-priority only mode did them in, since aperture priority becomes more popular. I do use Aperture Priority much more than Shutter Priority.

I see KEH lists T3n at a reasonable price from time to time, and you might want to keep an eye on that. KEH has excellent return policy.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I have a Konica T3n and a TC, and I can tell the build quality of T3n is higher than TC. But the TC is more compact and lighter weight, so both serve different needs.

My T3n is in top condition, and I don't think it is lesser than their Nikon/Canon/Pentax/Minolta competitors from the same era. Maybe it was the Shutter-priority only mode did them in, since aperture priority becomes more popular. I do use Aperture Priority much more than Shutter Priority.

I see KEH lists T3n at a reasonable price from time to time, and you might want to keep an eye on that. KEH has excellent return policy.

I agree -- the Konica T3n has the better build quality and some advanced features that are missing on the T4. The T3n is a very fine camera, no doubt about it. That is why I bought it, in case my T4 ever craps out on me. (BTW, I believe I bought my T4 from you.) But the two things I like better about the T4 are its (much) lighter weight and its (slightly) brighter viewfinder.

I had Greg Weber service the T4 and he adjusted the meter circuit to work with modern batteries. It was probably one of the last cameras he worked on before he retired. Unfortunately, he retired before he was able to find a minor light leak, which I am still trying to locate.

My reference film camera, the one I have been using for the past 30-some years, is the Pentax MX. If a person wants a smaller, lighter body with a big bright view finder, the MX sets the bar pretty high. Few others can compare, including my Pentax KX. For me, the T4 is very tolerable, but the T3n is less so.

I believe your TC takes a modern battery, right? How do you like the TC's viewfinder?

 

[runswithsizzers]

If the mirror gets stuck but falls back down when shaken, the cause could be resin or resin plus oil. This could be cleaned with lighter fluid.

I hope the seller did not try to solve the problem with oil alone. That would be an indication of the oil traces on the shutter.

When he sent the camera back the last time, he said, "I cleaned up the shutter and it works like a champ."

But it is a moot point now, because the seller has graciously agreed to refund my money, and he even sent me a prepaid postage label for the return. So I am done with the Konica T3n, and somewhat relieved to have one less problem in my life.

 

[BrianShaw]

Congratulations. It's a bit of a shame because it seems like a really nice camera and it would be very nice to just take pictures with it. You are truly blessed that the seller is so reputable and ethical. Sounds like he/she/etc really tried for you and is willing to make everything right. Don't hear that kind of story all of the time.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Congratulations. It's a bit of a shame because it seems like a really nice camera and it would be very nice to just take pictures with it. You are truly blessed that the seller is so reputable and ethical. Sounds like he/she/etc really tried for you and is willing to make everything right. Don't hear that kind of story all of the time.

So true. The seller calls himself Sindjin on Etsy; located in West Springfield, VA (USA). Unlike most people who deal in used film cameras, he replaces the light seals and mirror bumper on most of the cameras he sells -- and for cameras that were designed to meter with mercury batteries he modifies the meter circuits with Schottky diodes so they should work with modern batteries. He has a lot of positive reviews on Etsy, so I assume problems like mine are rare, and quickly resolved to the customer's satisfaction.

 

[ic-racer]

The oil will seep back on the blades. The whole shutter assembly needs to be either disassembled to its individual blades, or the whole blade assembly soaked in solvent.

On this camera, it took about 4 hours work to get to the shutter. That included unsoldering about 20 wires.
It was nice to get this one working again. If froze up in 1994 in a Minnesota winter taking pictures of geese.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Thanks for the tip. Note to self: No pictures of geese!