Odd paper

[pentaxuser]

The similar Waterproof paper I bought in the early 1970s, advertised by AW Young, would have almost certainly been ex-RAF or Royal Navy stock. Waterproof to speed up washing and drying times, and maybe water usage in board Navy ships.

Ian

Yes I should have thought of this aspect as that really make sense on board RN ships

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[miha]

This is strange; I always thought (and still do) PE and RC mean the same thing. From Agfa's latest MPC pdf:

 

[koraks]

I always thought (and still do) PE and RC mean the same thing.

They do now. I don't think 'resin' coated papers as such still exist for photographic purposes. I can imagine this was different in the (distant) past.

 

[miha]

So what does RC stand for?

 

[koraks]

Resin Coated.

 

[miha]

I guess so. And yet you state that resin coated papers do not exist.

 

[koraks]

I guess so. And yet you state that resin coated papers do not exist.

Not anymore, in the strict sense of the word, no. I think the "RC" moniker stuck around even though it's technically incorrect. Like many terms in our language.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak used the phrase right from day one.
Most likely, it was a marketing choice, because polyethene paper would have been a tough sell.
This contemporary comes to mind:

 

[miha]

Alright, so it's all about semantics.

 

[MattKing]

Alright, so it's all about semantics.

All marketing labels are.
If every product had a comprehensive and accurate label attached, "RC" paper would have to be referred to by something way too long to fit comfortably on the label.
When you think of it, "film" is a similar example, as "film" is actually just a thin coating ....

 

[miha]

Well, apart from some very new papers that are just around the corner that will no longer be PE-coated, but with something else...those are not for sale yet, I think.

Please share more. Polyester, perhaps?

 

[koraks]

Please share more. Polyester, perhaps?

No.

 

[BobUK]

Polyester was the base for the late, lamented Cibachrome.

 

[miha]

Polyester was the base for the late, lamented Cibachrome.

Indeed. A much mores stable/long lasting support than polythene.

 

[miha]

No.

You don't wan't to share or is this a "no" to polyester

 

[Ian Grant]

They do now. I don't think 'resin' coated papers as such still exist for photographic purposes. I can imagine this was different in the (distant) past.

Well Ilford's RC base has not changed significantly since the 1974 release, except to have a rougher rear surface to allow it to be written on. So they do still exost.

It may well be that Kenthene was actually a PE paper, the "thene"b,it had an amazingly high gloss for an early RC paper. I was looking for a good warm-tone paper maybe 1987. I tried Kentmere Kentona but it was only available in two grades. I tried Oriental Centrabrom, and the new Indian Sterling warmtone paper. opting in the end for Record Rapid.

Record Rapid was replaced by Agfa Multi Contrast Classic. When Agfa stopped paper manufacture I was stuck, I didn't like the creamy white base of the Ilford Warmtone, and opted for Forte Polywarmtone. Then Forte closed.

Meanwhile the creamy white paper base of Ilford Warmtone had been discontinued, great it was now on a nice white base. At the time Ilford told me that there was only one major manufacturer of the paper base FB & RC.

The bottom line is how the papers perform, and their stability, I looked at images made on this unbranded Water[roof paper made in 1976 and there is no deterioration.

Two slightly different approaches PE & RC the results were not quite the same. I will have Ilford's RC patent(s) somewhere. PE colour print papers were introdced in 1968, B&W much earlier.

Ian

 

[koraks]

You don't wan't to share or is this a "no" to polyester

Both, actually. It'll become clear one day I'm sure.

 

[miha]

I can hardly wait!

 

[Sal Santamaura]

How do those two differ? I always thought PE was the British (and other countries') term for what we in the U.S. refer to as RC.

PE means the paper base is polythene encapsulated, with a thin film on both sides when you tear a print which isn't easy you see the polythene stretch slightly then break, so quite different to RC where the paper base is coated with a resin...

As a side note, that's yet another instance of two countries separated by a common language. It's still referred to as polyethylene in the U.S., not polythene.

OK, the main question remains a mystery to me. What is this "resin" if not polyethylene/polythene?

 

[Ian Grant]

As a side note, that's yet another instance of two countries separated by a common language. It's still referred to as polyethylene in the U.S., not polythene.

OK, the main question remains a mystery to me. What is this "resin" if not polyethylene/polythene?

Looking at it from a historical point of view early PE waterproof papers used plastic encapsulation of the paper base, using thin layers of plastic film applied to both sides

The difference is that RC papers have a Polyethylene polymer resin coated on the paper in liquid form, Polyethylene Glycol for instance is liquid so are other polymers.

Ian

 

[koraks]

Polyethylene Glycol for instance is liquid

Yes, but how would it make sense as a coating for a photographic paper? Was it further polymerized in situ after application in order to solidify it?

using thin layers of plastic film applied to both sides

That's how it's done today.