Obtaining pyro developers in Turkey

[koraks]

I am not convinced that all regular routes are closed. Turkey is a modern country with a functioning postal system. Istanbul is a massive metropolis. It is possible to obtain catechol there, I'm sure. Or simply ready-made pyrocat. When connecting two dots, a straight line is the shortest way. Start there.

 

[lamerko]

I am not convinced that all regular routes are closed. Turkey is a modern country with a functioning postal system. Istanbul is a massive metropolis. It is possible to obtain catechol there, I'm sure. Or simply ready-made pyrocat. When connecting two dots, a straight line is the shortest way. Start there.

I've always thought that chemicals are more easily available and cheaper in Turkey. I live relatively close - close enough that I could leave at night, be in the Turkish town near the border early in the morning (a popular shopping destination for us), and be back home by evening with a full trunk of goods. Some time ago, I seriously considered buying photographic chemicals there. I don't know why, but I had the impression that the selection was richer than in Bulgaria…

 

[koraks]

Turkey is not bound to EU legislation, so I would expect some things to be more readily available there, especially to consumers.

 

[joho]

So! , from what is pyrogallol made ???

[DONT SHOOT ME ] just an idea. A what if one can not find Pyrogallol, use use kassia in a developer solution ????

I looked it up ---- Pyrogallol use, e.g. in hair dye formulations,[*] is declining because of concerns about its toxicity.

just a thought [*] a derivative of - Hena - one equal is kassia from [ Hena ]

and again you do not have to start hitting me all at once !!

 

[Don_ih]

Truthfully, the Alibaba $13 for 1kg plus $185 shipping isn't actually that bad. That's $20 for 100g. I don't see it anywhere at that price. Of course, if you end up eating more hidden costs, the price could go up.

Alibaba is geared toward industrial purchasers. It's largely a waste of the seller's time to ship some tiny amount of something.

 

[lamerko]

Many sellers are willing to send "samples" - the listing usually states a minimum quantity, which is typically 1 kg. That's how I got CD-3 from Alibaba - three whole kilograms. There was an issue, though, with the fact that I don't have a registered company, in principle they don't sell to end consumers, but in my case they agreed. I was telling them I was "in the process of opening a company", and they were telling me they "believed" me and that there wouldn't be a problem. In the end, I'm happy with the final result of this little "affair"

 

[koraks]

This is honestly getting increasingly ridiculous by the minute.

 

[Yezishu]

Many sellers are willing to send "samples" - the listing usually states a minimum quantity, which is typically 1 kg. That's how I got CD-3 from Alibaba - three whole kilograms. There was an issue, though, with the fact that I don't have a registered company, in principle they don't sell to end consumers, but in my case they agreed. I was telling them I was "in the process of opening a company", and they were telling me they "believed" me and that there wouldn't be a problem. In the end, I'm happy with the final result of this little "affair"

I'm curious, how much did it cost in shipping to Bulgaria and how much time did it take?

 

[lamerko]

The supplier is Zhaohui-Chem. Shipping was via FedEx - "fast and easy delivery", which isn't a description I’m familiar with from FedEx, so it may be something specific to China. Shipped on 20.10.2022 (Shushan), it arrived in Bulgaria on 02.11.2022 (there was a delay due to customs clearance).
The shipping cost and VAT were included in the total price ($120/kg).

 

[Yezishu]

The supplier is Zhaohui-Chem. Shipping was via FedEx - "fast and easy delivery", which isn't a description I’m familiar with from FedEx, so it may be something specific to China. Shipped on 20.10.2022 (Shushan), it arrived in Bulgaria on 02.11.2022 (there was a delay due to customs clearance).
The shipping cost and VAT were included in the total price ($120/kg).

Thanks for the information., it seems quite good with FedEx's speed.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I received a 12X12X35CM Wine Bottle Box and I am in the process of building 6X24 cm Curved Plane Pinhole Camera with 85mm focal lenght. We will make a show this summer and I want to reversal develop the films.
I am looking for positive staining and tanning developer formula for that camera and which film should go better with this developer.

By the way I have no access to pyrocatechin and pyrogallol but tannic acid is widely available and cheap.

Thank you,
Mustafa Umut Sarac
Istanbul

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Are you trying to make slides from B&W film? A staining developer is not a good idea for use as the first developer in reversal processing of B&W film. Use a paper strength developer like Ilford PQ Universal or its substitutes.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Are you trying to make slides from B&W film? A staining developer is not a good idea for use as the first developer in reversal processing of B&W film. Use a paper strength developer like Ilford PQ Universal or its substitutes.

We have D76 and Ilford Multigrade Paper developer , Yes I am trying to make 6X24 Slides from BW 120 roll film. If I make staining and tanning that would be wonderful.

 

[Yezishu]

Are reversal and staining supposed to be conflicting? The staining during the first development will cause the highlight areas to be yellow, while the staining during the second development will be in the less noticeable shadow areas. Since the second development of reversal film is to completion, any fine-grained developer should work.

If you have phenidone or Dimezone, here's a personal simple formula: 4x concentration of PCTEA.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Yes, it's a bad idea as the first developer. However, as a second developer, a staining developer like Pyrocat HD can be useful.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Yes, it's a bad idea as the first developer. However, as a second developer, a staining developer like Pyrocat HD can be useful.

One Spanish friend sent me Pyrocat MC. But I am not sure it will pass through customs. What do you know and help with tannic acid ?

 

[koraks]

Tannic acid would likely stain the gelatin emulsion. Whether or not it will effectively develop film to a desirable result, and under which conditions, would take a lot of experimentation to figure out. Due to its tendency to stain pretty much everything it comes into contact with, it would not be very suitable for development of slides/reversal processing. The tanning effect might also hold back development of the denser areas, which can result in poor blacks. For reversal processing, I'd stick to a normal, non-staining developer for both first and second development. If desired, the film can always be toned afterwards with any toner that would work on silver, such as sepia, selenium, gold etc.

Furthermore, as far as I know, tannic acid is a poorly characterized substance that can be highly variable in composition. This would exacerbate the problems above as a formula that works one day (after lots of testing) may not work quite as well at a later stage when you happen to have a different batch of tannic acid as a raw material.

I don't know how strict customs are in Turkey; it would be nice if your Pyrocat makes it through.

 

[Chromium VI]

For developing slides you can use Foma's Fomadon LQR film developer. It is the same developer used on the R100 kit, made for transparency work.
About pyrogallol, here in Portugal there is only one supplier, it's a representative of sigma but they sell to individuals, last quote was around 71€ per 100gr. Catechol is more easily available and goes for half the price. IDK if in Turkey nutgalls are common but you can extract the gallic acid by smashing them hydrolising, filter and recristalize. Then, just need to sublimate them and you get pyro.
EDIT: According to Braconnot (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/14786443108675708) you can make pyrogallic acid (pyrogallol) directliy m´by sublimation of nutgalls.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

We have D76 and Ilford Multigrade Paper developer , Yes I am trying to make 6X24 Slides from BW 120 roll film.

There's a first developer for reversal processing of TMax films proposed by Dietrich and sold by Photographic Formulary based on D76. Dietrich's idea was to add Sodium Carbonate to make the developer more active and use Sodium Thiosulphate as the halide solvent. So, if you have D76, you can make a decent first developer by adding suitable amount of Sodium Carboniate and Sodium Thiosulphate. Though designed primarily for TMax films, you should be able to use it for other films as well by fine tuning the amount of Sodium Thiosulphate and the development time.

As far as reversal processing of B&W films is concerned, it is best to start with a tested process rather than experimenting with esoteric developers.

 

[Chromium VI]

There's a first developer for reversal processing of TMax films proposed by Dietrich and sold by Photographic Formulary based on D76. Dietrich's idea was to add Sodium Carbonate to make the developer more active and use Sodium Thiosulphate as the halide solvent. So, if you have D76, you can make a decent first developer by adding suitable amount of Sodium Carboniate and Sodium Thiosulphate. Though designed primarily for TMax films, you should be able to use it for other films as well by fine tuning the amount of Sodium Thiosulphate and the development time.

As far as reversal processing of B&W films is concerned, it is best to start with a tested process rather than experimenting with esoteric developers.

Do you think that it may also work with Multigrade developer?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Any reasonable print developer suitably diluted should work ok as the first developer. I've no experience with Multigrade developer.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Tannic acid would likely stain the gelatin emulsion. Whether or not it will effectively develop film to a desirable result, and under which conditions, would take a lot of experimentation to figure out. Due to its tendency to stain pretty much everything it comes into contact with, it would not be very suitable for development of slides/reversal processing. The tanning effect might also hold back development of the denser areas, which can result in poor blacks. For reversal processing, I'd stick to a normal, non-staining developer for both first and second development. If desired, the film can always be toned afterwards with any toner that would work on silver, such as sepia, selenium, gold etc.

Furthermore, as far as I know, tannic acid is a poorly characterized substance that can be highly variable in composition. This would exacerbate the problems above as a formula that works one day (after lots of testing) may not work quite as well at a later stage when you happen to have a different batch of tannic acid as a raw material.

I don't know how strict customs are in Turkey; it would be nice if your Pyrocat makes it through.

Someone replaced Pyrocat HD cathecol, 10X than the normal amount with tannic acid and declared success but I asked the peoples experience with it , no one turned back.

Turkish Customs want to ordinary people stop wasting dollar euro to abroad. They do everything to stop it.

Selenium toning is good choice.

 

[koraks]

I think that someone was possibly the only person alive to actually try it. I might try it one day, as I have some tannic acid on hand. However, even if it works, the question about proper mixing ratios and development times would still stand, as would the concern of overall staining of the emulsion.

Policy commentary is outside the scope of this forum.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Turkish Customs want to ordinary people stop wasting dollar euro to abroad. They do everything to stop it.

Even if they do this to you, they can't stop you from doing reversal processing with the developers you already have or with a Rodinal substitute like Parodinal.