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Worker 11811

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I'm fairly aware of the limits of home scanning.

I don't really scan my film for ultra high resolution anyway. Most of the time it's just to get versions of them for the internet and for record keeping purposes on my computer.

If I needed to have film scanned for maximum resolution I'd probably send it out.

I was mostly being humorous. I only spent $75.00 for a camera that has so many megapixels. :D
That's only 83¢ per megapixel! :D :D :D
 

Sirius Glass

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It's not that simple. Scanners, unless you spend megabucks for an ultra high quality unit, aren't going to translate all that into useful data.

With a professional scanner at 9,000 it would be 410 Megapixels. The number is to answer stupid but well meaning questions with a shock value number to say "there are advantages to film".
 

michaelbsc

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If you are shooting 6x6 cm at 4000 dpi you are getting 90 Megapixels.

I tried the math, but I come up with only 81MP at 4000dpi. Statically speaking, that's close enough.

I did note that the Phase One 645 sensor is 39mp. This is probably a more "real life" estimate of what's possible.
 

Sirius Glass

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I used 2.25x2.25. If I wanted to be accurate I would have used the Hasselblad 56mmX56mm. I was looking to blow someone out of the water.

Steve
 

magkelly

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Newer technology can be excellent so that's not quite fair to say that just because something is old it's better. That being said I like old things and I think a lot of people certain old things resonant with them. It's more a nostalgia thing though than any actual understanding of the thing involved. I like old things, not just cameras, but old clothes and dishes and other vintage things that most people don't even think about using.

Some people they just don't feel much of a connection to the past. I do. But some do and when I go out dressed in a vintage blouse or wearing an old hat, or I invite someone over and they end up eating off vintage plates or looking at my vintage toys they do connect with that.

People who like old cars, old planes, old clothes, old cameras, etc. They tend to equate one with the other. It's almost more natural to the eye to see someone at an old car show with a film camera than not. It fits the era better. That's not to say someone standing there with their DSLR can't take pics that are the equal of my 50 year old SLR and often vice versa, of course they can, but to me it almost seem odd to actually see a person taking a picture of a vintage Ford truck with a DSLR instead of an old SLR.

The one sort of really goes with the other, if that makes sense?

It's also sort of like wearing tie dye to a classic psychedelic 60's band concert. Yeah, you can come in there wearing the latest, most fashionable outfit you own, but doesn't the tie dye and jeans seem somehow more appropriate?

It's all about era, and time.

Personally I like digital for doing every day work and film more for doing things like vintage car shows. It's fun walking around with a camera that's older than I am for a day now and again, particularly when I get the chance to photograph something as old as it is, but when I'm taking shots of my cats or for the web or whatever usually I do tend to reach for the digital more. Using the old cameras is a bit of an adventure, more fun. Using the digital, it's pretty routine.

I think so. In the case of vintage aircraft and analog cameras, both are finely-tuned, beautifully executed works of mechanical art. And both perform their respective functions with style and a dash of bravado. They harken back to a time when excellence mattered. And when people still possessed the taste to appreciate it.

Ken
 

Sirius Glass

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Newer technology can be excellent so that's not quite fair to say that just because something is old it's better.

I think that misses the point. Many here see good technical and artistic advantages for using film, cameras that are mechanical versus electronic, ... et al. That is the point.

Nota Bene: This is not an invitation to start a digital versus film flame war.
 

bblhed

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I bring my Pentax 6X7 to family gatherings now and then and I get a lot of people saying things like "Man I forgot how big film cameras used to be." I tell them that it is a wildlife camera, and that if I can photograph a bear with it and defend myself from the bear with it as well. I get razzed a lot because I use flashbulbs too and people are shocked by how bright they are. Still there is nothing like taking out a Folding Kodak Brownie at Disney World and seeing just how many people stare at you while you take light readings and shoot.
 

Worker 11811

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Yes, there is a certain amount of nostalgic pride in seeing and using older cameras versus digital but the thing that often bugs me about people who use digital cameras is the "Good Enough" mentality that they have. (I often get it too.)

When shooting film, I take my time. I double check my work. I put effort into composing and/or setting up a shot. I do my best to make a good photograph and the finished product shows it.

When I'm shooting digital... "Snap! Snap! Snap! That's good enough." and I'm done with it. If I get a good shot I save it. If I don't I delete it. I have shot more than 15,000 digital exposures with a digicam. I know because the serial numbers on the pictures only go up to 10,000 and I'm on 4,900. This does not include all the shots I have done for work. Out of those several thousand exposures I have shot with a digicam over my life, I probably have only a few hundred or maybe 1,000 that I have kept.

Modern (digital) products play into a "throw away" or "good enough for now" mentality where older (film) products play toward a "craftsmanship" or long term preservation mentality. Maybe it has to do with the way our consumer economy has shifted toward a "throw away" mentality of planned obsolescence.

Regardless of whether you embrace our current style of consumer economy, I still believe that there is room for craftsmanship and preservation of traditional methods and I believe it can and should exist alongside modern production.

Okay, story time... :wink:

I was watching a tractor pull at the local County Fair, years ago. They had all these super-modified big engine tractors making all sorts of noise and smoke. There were turbocharged engines. There were multi-engine tractors. They even had a couple of turbine engines. They spun their wheels and shot black smoke and blew tongues of fire into the air. Barely any of them could pull the weight sled more than half way down the 100 foot track.

So, at the end of the day, winners were declared, trophies were awarded and there was celebration all around. Then, right as everybody was about to go home, this guy chugs in on a vintage steam engine tractor. I suspect this was a setup because the announcer grabbed the microphone and started saying, "Look what we have here! Let's see what this *OLD* tractor can do!"

Everybody sort of chuckled and played along but there were a few subtle, knowing smiles in the crowd.

They hooked up the tractor to the sled and the referee waived the flag. The steam tractor started off slowly but finally gained speed. It made the end of the 100 foot run in, probably, the same amount of time that the other tractors did. Maybe a little longer. But when the referee blew the whistle and waived the checkered flag, the tractor kept going... and going... and going! He didn't stop until he had gone almost half way around the oval dirt track. The referee and all the judges were shouting, "No! STOP!" and they were waving their arms frantically. They acted like the pulling sled was going to break.

The "farmer," dressed in his flannel shirt, stopped the steam tractor, unhitched the sled and chugged off the track. He left the sled there for the gasoline tractors to pull back to the starting line. Those who weren't laughing or standing there with their chins on the ground were cheering and applauding.

As I said, I'm sure this was a setup but I think it illustrates my point that old technology can be superior to modern technology and it shows why we should keep old technology around and available for use if and when needed.

As far as I know, there is no gasoline or diesel engine that can put out more power than a triple expansion steam engine. The problem is that steam engines aren't exactly fuel efficient nor are they easy to operate. On the other hand, a nuclear powered aircraft carrier is essentially a steam engine driven ship. Isn't it? (Steam turbine. Right?) A perfect example of old and new technology existing side by side.
 

Steve Smith

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As far as I know, there is no gasoline or diesel engine that can put out more power than a triple expansion steam engine.

It's a different kind of power. Steam and electric produce maximum torque at minimum speed and both can start moving from standstill without a slipping clutch or other type of variable transmission.

A Sentinel steam waggon or a Stanley steam car will out accelerate many modern vehicles from a standing start but will not match their top speed.


Steve.
 

wblynch

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...Modern (digital) products play into a "throw away" or "good enough for now" mentality where older (film) products play toward a "craftsmanship" or long term preservation mentality...

I agree.

It's the 'craftsmanship' versus 'instant gratification' that explains it all.

It reminds me of when we first moved into our brand new neighborhood. A neighbor was complaining to the landscaper that she didn't have time to wait for a 5 gallon tree to grow and she wanted a 36" box tree to be planted.

The landscaper replied, "You're going to be here anyway. What else do you have time for?"
 

Worker 11811

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It's a different kind of power. Steam and electric produce maximum torque at minimum speed and both can start moving from standstill without a slipping clutch or other type of variable transmission.

A Sentinel steam waggon or a Stanley steam car will out accelerate many modern vehicles from a standing start but will not match their top speed.

Agreed. :smile:

My thoughts run toward matching the technology to solve a particular problem instead of using stock solutions.
Maybe there's a time when using a steam engine would be better. Maybe there's a time when diesel or electric would be better. I think too many people assume that internal combustion MUST be the solution because it's the only one they know how to apply, whereas a little thought into the problem might lead them to a better solution. Even if steam power isn't the right solution, the application of thought will lead them to the best solution for the problem.

Same thing goes for photography. Maybe speed, ease and convenience are required for publication in a newspaper or magazine but people shouldn't rule out film photography just because they don't understand it. For quality, longevity and overall impression, film can not be beaten by any digital technology we have today. It's up to the user to decide what is needed for his particular application.

But, as I said, the "Good Enough" mentality that seems to prevail today leads too many people down the garden path toward using digital photography when it might not be the right solution for the situation at hand.
 

lxdude

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It's a different kind of power. Steam and electric produce maximum torque at minimum speed and both can start moving from standstill without a slipping clutch or other type of variable transmission.


Steve.

When I learned that years ago is when I understood the beauty of the diesel-electric locomotive design.
 

lxdude

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I think that misses the point. Many here see good technical and artistic advantages for using film, cameras that are mechanical versus electronic, ... et al. That is the point.

Nota Bene: This is not an invitation to start a digital versus film flame war.

How about a Latin versus English one? :tongue:
 

AgentX

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Most people have a "good enough" mentality no matter what medium they're using, and have always used the most convenient medium. People forget that film, especially rollfilm, is itself a tool of convenience evolved from earlier methods. And you know what?? That's fine, if it fills the user's needs!!

Plenty of people take more care and make better images on digital, modern, fast equipment than many people made on film. There is nothing inherent to film that means a better quality result.

Plenty of people make more interesting photos with their iPhones than some of us do with Leica MPs and Bessa IIIs.

For some of us, film gives us what we want. And that's fine for us. Look at Nick Brandt's photos. A hybrid film/digital workflow and output that gives astounding results. It's about finding what works best for you and your desired results.
 

Sirius Glass

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How about a Latin versus English one? :tongue:

Thanks for being smart enough to recognize the I was using Italics to denote the use of a foreign language, Latin in this case.
 

lxdude

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Thanks for being smart enough to recognize the I was using Italics to denote the use of a foreign language, Latin in this case.



No prollum olbuddy. Nihilum est.
 

lxdude

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Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine!

Ex ore parvulorum veritas!

Iay aaymay eatgray!

Line #1: So your fat ole lady got out on parole, did she?

#2 Parvulorum indeed. Not that veritas means much these days anyway.

#3 Ezsay ouyay. Oink!
 

Sirius Glass

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Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine! ===> Deeds are masculine; Words are feminine.
 

lxdude

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Indeed, the word is your fat ole lady is more masculine than feminine after being in the slammer. :tongue::tongue::laugh::laugh:
 

Sirius Glass

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Indeed, the word is your fat ole lady is more masculine than feminine after being in the slammer. :tongue::tongue::laugh::laugh:

You are quite misinformed. I do not have a higher power! :laugh:
 

lxdude

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Sorry, your EX-fat ole lady. Now she's out on parole, the dog's really pissed! :wink::D
 

lxdude

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The moderators + the rest of us = SPQA. Senatus Populusque Apugus.
 
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Andy K

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Now that's what I call a real camera!

I get that when I pull out the Rolleicord.
 
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