Nova Two Slot paper processor

[klownshed]

My Nova has three chemical slots plus a wash slot, which is handy.

AS for the cling film, maybe I'll have to try again. Do you still use the lids or just cling film? I think I used clingfilm over the floating lids and that did cause a bit of mess.

 

[ericdan]

I used cling film over the floating lids. Didn't create any mess for me. I am wondering how covering the device with cling film would create a mess.

 

[FujiLove]

I used cling film over the floating lids. Didn't create any mess for me. I am wondering how covering the device with cling film would create a mess.

Same here. The only 'mess' it can create is if you cover the tanks when the chemicals are warm which leads to condensation on the cling film. You just have to be careful it doesn't drip into the slots when you peel it back.

 

[klownshed]

Perhaps it was from putting cling film on when the chemicals were still warm. I use my Nova for B&W so the temperature was only set to 20°C.

The mess came from the chemicals kind of leeching under the cling film and down the side of the Nova. and the cling film itself was quite messy.

I didn't get any mess just using the floating lids.

I'm wondering if the cling film somehow prevented the lids from floating freely, perhaps the slots were a touch overfilled for cling film...

 

[FujiLove]

I'm wondering if the cling film somehow prevented the lids from floating freely, perhaps the slots were a touch overfilled for cling film...

Yes, could have been a bit overfilled. You need to be a little more careful about fill levels when you're using floating lids, to ensure the lid is in contact with the liquid but not sloshing over the top. My B&W tank has one simple lid which covers the whole top, which is less fussy, but I imagine doesn't provide the same oxygen barrier.

 

[ericdan]

Same here. The only 'mess' it can create is if you cover the tanks when the chemicals are warm which leads to condensation on the cling film. You just have to be careful it doesn't drip into the slots when you peel it back.

Wait, but the condensed stuff is just water not developer.

 

[BMbikerider]

My Nova has three chemical slots plus a wash slot, which is handy.

AS for the cling film, maybe I'll have to try again. Do you still use the lids or just cling film? I think I used clingfilm over the floating lids and that did cause a bit of mess.

One trick to help Clingfilm to work is to radius the sharp corners at the top so they don't pierce the film this also helps to get a good seal. My method of applying the film is to ensure the ends of the tank are perfectly clean and dry as well as the lips of the outer chemical baths, plus the tops between the different slots. Now taking the roll of film apply about 3-4 inches at the rear of the tank and roll the film towards you and bring the roll over the front by about 3-4 inches. Cut it cleanly with a craft knife or similar.

Now taking the outer edge of the film at the bleach side in one hand, press it into close contact with the outer edge and the top of the right hand slot. Stretch it tight (a must) and bring it into contact with the next strip and finally the edge of the dev slot. Try to get it smooth (not easy I know), but once that is done you should be able to have a relatively air tight seal. Yes, I leave the floating lids in place as well, the less exposure to air the better for at least the dev. As the tank cools down if the seal is good you should be able to see the film curve inward to the slots caused by a near vacuum as the air cools.

It also helps if the chemicals DO NOT come above the middle line of the lids.

When the next time you go to use the processor, remove the film first before switching on because as the processor heats up, some chemical will evaporate onto the film and that will cause a mess when it is removed. With good careful replenishment, the life of the developer etc will be extended into several month at least, if not years. The only thing is, it does have to be drained, cleared out and cleaned once in a while. I do mine about every 6 months. I just refil the slots with the original chemicals and top up if required. You can never over replenish.

The comment made previously about the two slot processors being mainly unheated is not strictly correct. When the NOVA slot processors were first conceived way back perhaps 35 years ago, they were intended for RA4 processing only. B&W was still largely done in open trays or automated machines in commercial premises so there was no need for another system. The unheated processors only came into production a good while later.

 

[FujiLove]

Wait, but the condensed stuff is just water not developer.

The liquid that condenses when I use cling film has a faint smell of chemical which leads me to think it's not pure water. I guess it could be near as matters water, but I don't like to risk contaminating the slots.

Regarding the lifespan of liquids used in these tanks, I think there may well be a big difference between RA4 and B&W chemicals. RA4 seems to last almost indefinitely when replenished, whereas the B&W developer seems more prone to exhaustion. I read somewhere on here that RA4 chemicals actually keep better after mixing them into working concentrations, which seems to be the opposite of most other photographic chemicals.

 

[BetterSense]

Keep in mind modern cling films are typically generic polyethylene film which does not block oxygen and is only good for keeping cookies from sliding off the plate. Original Saran wrap was made of polyvinelidine which blocks over 3000 times more oxygen than polyethylene, but is supposedly worse for the environment. Due to lower cost of manufacture, consumer films were quietly switched over to crap, without adequate re-branding and of course without dropping the price. FDA apparently have limited jurisdiction over consumer cling films, and consumer protection laws are weak in the US, so this ripoff was allowed to take place without anyone stopping it. You can still get real stuff from restaurant supply stores and usually it has a greenish color on the roll.

 

[FujiLove]

Keep in mind modern cling films are typically generic polyethylene film which does not block oxygen and is only good for keeping cookies from sliding off the plate. Original Saran wrap was made of polyvinelidine which blocks over 3000 times more oxygen than polyethylene, but is supposedly worse for the environment. Due to lower cost of manufacture, consumer films were quietly switched over to crap, without adequate re-branding and of course without dropping the price. FDA apparently have limited jurisdiction over consumer cling films, and consumer protection laws are weak in the US, so this ripoff was allowed to take place without anyone stopping it. You can still get real stuff from restaurant supply stores and usually it has a greenish color on the roll.

Very interesting - thanks for posting.

 

[ericdan]

Wow ok, that's good to know. So the cling film doesn't do anything for the oxidization. Good to know.
I am in my third week now and haven't replenished anything. The Ektacolor developer is still working fine.

 

[BMbikerider]

I don't claim that cling film completely reduces oxidisation per se, but what it does and does well is prevent evaporation of the chemicals. As I said it won't prevent oxidisation but if you get a good seal between the film and the tank, as it cools the film will stretch in towards the lids which to anyone should realise is caused by a vacuum as the liquids cool down. That vacuum/stretching does not decrease so long as a good seal is made so there has to be some retardation of oxidisation irrespective of the permeation of oxygen through the film.

 

[Cherv]

My 1st NOVA was 12x16 twin slot and I used it from the onset for RA4 printing. I ALWAYS use a stop bath because this does extend the life of the bleach-fix (Stop bath is cheaper than blix)! So I used to heat a 12x16 dish with blix, alongside the NOVA and pour it back into the container when my session was over. I never had a problem with it, either through chemical deterioration or the heating element burning out. That was about 17 years ago and sold it to buy a 3 slot which actually wasn't very good. It had a water leak internally and the blix used to get contaminated with water from one of the heating baths. (Replaced under warranty)

I now have a 2 bath (for B&W) and a 4 bath which is used for RA4. I find the 4 bath far to heavy and cumbersome to move about (approx 30Lb weight for the water+chemicals alone) which I have to do occasionally because it is not plumbed in and I have to drain it to clean outside. I would dearly like another 3 bath, now that was a manageable size although almost as heavy. They are still made but cost a fortune. I always replenish all three baths at the end of a session at the ration of 100cc per each 800 sq ins of paper processed and the lngest I have kept it on the 'go' before emptying the tank and cleaning it out was 18 months and still prodicing decent prints.

I have used cling film from the start and have never had a problem with mess. It certainly helps with the preservation of the chemicals, especially the developer. If it is applied correctly, as each of the baths cool down, it forms a semi vacuum under the film so reducing the ingress of oygen.

They are a brilliant bit of kit and so simple and reliable.

Hello! I am considering buying a two slot Nova for RA4 printing. Reading your post makes it sound possible. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand "So I used to heat a 12x16 dish with blix". How were those two slots used (developer and stop bath?) and what is this "dish", that is being heated, for the blix, if I understand right? Also, isn't that a suboptimal way to use a Nova processor, meaning, ending up using a tray for the blix, which defies the purpose of using a Nova? Your response would be much appreciated.

 

[BMbikerider]

Whoa on there! You guys are reading far far too much into possibilities; have you ever actually tried it or just theorising? I made my case based upon accumulated knowledge from over 25 years of printing RA4, not just a one off test, or just thinking about it.

If oxygen can penetrate clingfilm, then I cannot argue with that - theoretically.- I don't know any different. I will say more on that later based upon what I found, not what 'might' happen.What I can say is what I did was very very effective. Yes you do get condensation on the under surface of the film, but this is NOT the pure chemical and so long as the film is firmly pressed onto the flat surfaces between the slots no fluid can/will pass between each bath. When you peel the film back prior to use just wipe the flat surfaces with a paper towel and any water/dilute chemical is cleaned away. The only slot you have to be careful about is the developer. Dev and stop don't mix, but stop and blix can,..... to a surprising degree.

On the question of a partial vacuum being created with a perfect seal, this is indicated by the film being 'sucked' towards the lids and this remains taut as the chemicals cool and reduce in actual volume. So long as the seal remains complete I cannot see how oxygen passes through the film in any quantity to enable the partial vacuum to remain and any noticeably deterioration to take place. If it did with an otherwise complete seal the film would become slack and not tight.

I never filled the tanks completely before finishing a session I used to top up with the required quantity of chemicals and if any came up the sides of the lids I just drained enough off to reduce the level........ Simples.

My RA4 printing was at times very spasmodic, with several weeks between each session and if left uncovered the level of the chemicals would have evaporated, but with the film in place this just did not happen! As I mentioned there was one time when I was doing a lot of printing (Weddings etc) and the developer was only replaced after 18 months. So long as the developer was replenished at a rate of 100cc per 80 square inches then all will be well. As a matter of interest I was using Kodak Ektacolor RA4. Possibly the most stable and reliable of the RA4 developers.

The blix bath was not so tolerant of a long life an had to be changed roughly every 3 months when it began to smell similar to 'bad eggs). Again no problem with the stop bath just replenish as and when needed at the same ratio as the developer.

As a matter of interest I have now given up colour developing, it became boring! almost as bad as the other electronic medium and I now only print B&W. For me this takes more mental dexterity and personal judgement to get it right.

 

[BMbikerider]

Hello! I am considering buying a two slot Nova for RA4 printing. Reading your post makes it sound possible. But I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand "So I used to heat a 12x16 dish with blix". How were those two slots used (developer and stop bath?) and what is this "dish", that is being heated, for the blix, if I understand right? Also, isn't that a suboptimal way to use a Nova processor, meaning, ending up using a tray for the blix, which defies the purpose of using a Nova? Your response would be much appreciated.

The dish was a normal 12x16 paper dish used for B&W printing. The heating was done on an ordinary electric flatbed photographic dish heater. They are getting rare now and if you were to but second hand, but they are still available new - but at a price.