Note From HARMAN technology Limited : Re Price Increases

Wee Gillis · Jan 11, 2011

Simon

First let me express a candid thank you for your openess in communicating Harmon's plans for the near future. I too grew up on Ilford products and at one time we were, I believe, one of the larger dealers on the West Coast in the early seventies. We had an advantage over many other photo stores with two rental darkrooms and about a dozen enlargers. Boy, those were truely the Golden Days. With all that being said I wish you and Harmon Technology a good run in the coming year. I will do my part I assure you to not only purchase but promote your fine photographic products.

Wee Gillis

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 11, 2011

munz6869 said:
I've always used Ilford paper and chemicals, and a variety of Kodak, Ilford & Fuji films. I aim to do so for as long as I can. Maybe I'll spend less money on beer...

Marc!

Marc,

If you continue to offload enough old and unwanted darkroom stuff to Shane, he'll doubtless reciprocate with another slab of your favourite amber. And another. And another... Way to save, way to go!

TSSPro · Jan 11, 2011

I sincerely appreciate the information about the Ilford products and production. Thank you for the information and I will continue my support of Ilford to the best of my ability I want to see the great efforts of HARMON Technology Ltd continue.

John Kasaian · Jan 12, 2011

Ilford rocks!
I just placed an order for 8x10 HP-5+

drpsilver · Jan 12, 2011

11 Jan 2011

Simon:

Thank you for the information regarding the plans of Harmon Technologies in 2011. It is very refreshing for a company to be open and honest with its customers. (Too many in the US just surprise you with price increases without any explanation.) I will continue to use Ilford paper and chemistry as long as they are available. I very much appreciate the consistency and quality of your products.

I am looking forward to the new photo paper. Seeing one postcard made me want to try this paper with many images.

Regards,
Darwin

Marco B · Jan 12, 2011

Maris said:
Frankly I don't care what Ilford charge for their products as long as their prices reflect the cost of manufacture and incorporate a decent profit margin to keep the company going.

What I do resent is the diversion of money to intermediaries. Shippers, warehousers, importers, wholesalers, distributors, and retailers all want their their cut. In this on-line world the only option I need is to deal direct with Ilford. What ever price Ilford charge, even if it is hurtful, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing they are actually getting the money.

x2...

This is why I raised the issue of the pricing in the Netherlands versus that in the US. To much slack seems to be sticking elsewhere.

jacarape said:
I don't mind those guys so much, they are people that are providing real work. Heck, what good would it do if there wasn't a "shipper"?

But in your sentiment I agree, piss off PayPal (in the English sense, not American).

True, and I find it still a joy to visit my favorite shop nearby still stocking an incredible amount of analog stuff. But if the US and UK distribution chains, markets not much different from the Netherlands, can do it - and make profit - for half the sales price compared to the Netherlands, something needs to be looked at in the distribution chain...

Bob Carnie · Jan 12, 2011

The new paper IMO is not fotospeed tapestry.
It reacts identically to Ilford warmtone, the emergence time is extremely fast in regular developer then slows down, I would say you need 1/2-1 stop more power at the enlarger, tones and liths , and solarizes just like Ilford Warmtone.

chimneyfinder said:
The new paper sounds similar to the discontinued 'Fotospeed Tapestry' that was highly regarded for lith developing. Is anyone having experience of both papers aware of a comparison ? Sounds interesting.

Mahler_one · Jan 12, 2011

2F/2F said:
Thank you for the letter.

I will continue to buy Delta 3200 (and SFX every now and then) in 35mm format, as they are unique. I also will buy 120 films, and sheet films every now and then. But with the other high-quality alternatives to most of the Ilford paper and chemical range out there for significantly less money, I just won't use the paper or chemicals. They are simply exorbitant. When Arista Premium goes away, I will go back to HP5, but or now, with Premium still here, you cannot argue with comparable quality for half the price. Kodak has a rebadged Freestyle film, and so does Fuji. So Ilford must be getting killed in that area, at over twice the price.

Which Freestyle film is the rebadged Kodak film????

Given the situation at Kodak, will such rebadged film still be available??

Christopher Walrath · Jan 12, 2011

For now anyway. It's just a matter of time with Kodak.

mikebarger · Jan 12, 2011

I'll throw in my 2 cents with those that have indicated they like the information. However, I will continue to use Tri-X 400 in any format it is available. This means I do use HP5+ in 4x5. I don't use Ilford paper as there are too many good papers more competitively priced in the States.

Thanks again for the info.

Mike

Tom Kershaw · Jan 12, 2011

Just a reminder it is Harman not Harmon.

Tom

Black Dog · Jan 12, 2011

Harmon as in Alfred Harman who originally started the company, not to be confused with Mark Harmon aka Gibbs from NCIS..

Simon R Galley · Jan 12, 2011

Dear All,

I have been asked if we are going to do the ULF ( and special size ) run again this year. The answer absolutely is yes, it will be organised around May time as usual. The prices of the ULF product will go up as it will obviously ship post February. The system will remain the same, if its on the list as an item and we only get an order for one we will make it.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Christopher Walrath · Jan 12, 2011

Business as usual. I like it. Thanks, Simon.

2F/2F · Jan 12, 2011

Mahler_one said:
Which Freestyle film is the rebadged Kodak film????

Given the situation at Kodak, will such rebadged film still be available??

Like all Freestyle films, it will not last forever, but I intend to take advantage while it is here!

Arista Premium 100 is Plus-X and the 400 is Tri-X.

wblynch · Jan 12, 2011

Hopefully the day may yet come when Harman/Ilford considers producing color negative and positive films.

(well, hope remains in my little brain anyway )

Kevin Kehler · Jan 13, 2011

I just ordered 10 rolls of Pan F and 15 rolls of FP4+ (all in 120) from B&H Photo in NYC; including shipping, taxes and duty, it was more than $50 cheaper than purchasing at my local camera store and picking up.

I appreciate Ilford's willingness to be open with the business realities and still remaining committed to film. My complaint when Tri-X 320 was discontinued in 120 and 220 sizes was the lack of warning about the decision, it was just announced one day as over. At least Ilford has the courtesy to give us a heads up.

railwayman3 · Jan 13, 2011

Kevin Kehler said:
I appreciate Ilford's willingness to be open with the business realities and still remaining committed to film. My complaint when Tri-X 320 was discontinued in 120 and 220 sizes was the lack of warning about the decision, it was just announced one day as over. At least Ilford has the courtesy to give us a heads up.

I similarly saw no warning from Fuji when they recently discontinued the supply of Astia in the UK. And the availability situation with some of their other films still remains unclear. There is not only APUG but many other serious photo forums where they could do this easily and at no cost.

(In the last month, I've sent two orders to Harman Direct (their own mail order website for the UK). Both despatched by return, allowing for the hols. I'm putting another order together to send this w/e ).

Mahler_one · Jan 13, 2011

Kevin Kehler said:
I just ordered 10 rolls of Pan F and 15 rolls of FP4+ (all in 120) from B&H Photo in NYC; including shipping, taxes and duty, it was more than $50 cheaper than purchasing at my local camera store and picking up.

I appreciate Ilford's willingness to be open with the business realities and still remaining committed to film. My complaint when Tri-X 320 was discontinued in 120 and 220 sizes was the lack of warning about the decision, it was just announced one day as over. At least Ilford has the courtesy to give us a heads up.

I certainly would have done the same Kevin. However, we can all understand now why our local camera store is, in most instances, out of business. One would imagine that Ilford and others might sell to B&H and like vendors at a preferentially lower price. Consequently, the larger mail order/internet companies can sell at a much lower price, and still make their required profit. Moreover, as I found out a few months ago, UPS will often extend lower shipping rates to B&H-and other large vendors. So, lower prices and lower shipping costs serve to make local purchases less likely-except if one needs a roll or two, or box of sheet film, in an "emergency". When we then go into our local store, we are angry if their film supply is exhausted, or if we have to pay more for the film.

Note again that I am not being critical Kevin, but only making an observation.

Kevin Kehler · Jan 13, 2011

Mahler_one said:
I certainly would have done the same Kevin. However, we can all understand now why our local camera store is, in most instances, out of business. One would imagine that Ilford and others might sell to B&H and like vendors at a preferentially lower price. Consequently, the larger mail order/internet companies can sell at a much lower price, and still make their required profit. Moreover, as I found out a few months ago, UPS will often extend lower shipping rates to B&H-and other large vendors. So, lower prices and lower shipping costs serve to make local purchases less likely-except if one needs a roll or two, or box of sheet film, in an "emergency". When we then go into our local store, we are angry if their film supply is exhausted, or if we have to pay more for the film.

Note again that I am not being critical Kevin, but only making an observation.

I don't take it as a criticism at all. I have consistently supported my local store as much as possible, even working there in the past and being the resident "film guy". However, they have already increased their prices for the February increase because I know they do not have the film on-hand and will need to order it. Part of the problem is my local store deals through a third-party which increases costs. However, my order from B&H today was $124 and will be here in 6-10 business days; I called a friend who still works at the store and he quoted me $176 in 3-4 weeks because there is none currently in stock. And it is not a case of being sold out, none has been ordered in the last month. Also given the near parity of the US and Canadian dollars, some of the price differences are ridiculous; $129 for a 100 pack of Ilford FB paper in Canada, $78 being the average price in the US.

Alas, I will have to continue to deal with my local store for some products (liquids being impossible to ship out of the US) but will start looking elsewhere for my other supplies. I would use Freestyle (an APUG supporter) but they need a credit card and I don't use one (PayPal but no credit cards).

Anon Ymous · Jan 13, 2011

Kevin Kehler said:
... I would use Freestyle (an APUG supporter) but they need a credit card and I don't use one (PayPal but no credit cards).

Why not use a prepaid card then? That's what I did. Sure, they take a small commission every time you transfer money, but I can live with that. Can be used with PayPal too.

hpulley · Jan 13, 2011

Sadly, costs in Canada are out of line. Not quite as bad as Europe by the sounds of it but I can get Purolator Ground shipping from B&H in NY to my house in 2 days for about $10 for 25 rolls of PanF+. This amounts to a savings, including all shipping, duty and taxes (which are paid online, not at the door!), of $1.50/roll. Paper is cheaper again, everything is cheaper except some liquid chemicals which are either too heavy to send economically with all the silly water you need to ship or are unshippable due to hazmat regs (worse for air freight).

Freestyle is Cali so it is more expensive to ship to me and slower unfortunately.

I just told my local store that I'm doing my own C41 now too. He wasn't happy but at $8/roll to process when a $20 Tetenal kit will cost me under $2/roll, maybe even $1/roll depending on how long it lasts, I'm just throwing my money away there. There will be times when I'm out of Tetenal so I'll see if he is still running his lab but he only does C41 a few times a week so it can take a week to get results compared to 20 minutes in my basement.

If Ilford stuff goes up 30% then at least the US price of $3/roll only goes up to around $4 while in Canada the $6 price goes up to $8. Why would I shop locally, either in the store or mail order to Henrys when it is more expensive?

I assume the Canadian stores are just charging retail or some small discount from it but with 2 day $10 shipping it is a no brainer.

Kevin Kehler · Jan 13, 2011

I think the issue is my local camera store is no longer "my" camera store. 99% is focused on digital and not significantly different than Best Buy or Future Shop or a thousand other electronic outlets; there is a better tripod and backpack selection but nothing that is really different from a camera selection. For a guy like me who shoots film (primarily 120), their small selection of Kodak bulk and T-Max 35mm is just useless. There is nothing there that I need, so I am not supporting them as they have nothing for me to support! I only stop by to visit a couple friends and check out the used analogue gear.

Good analogy: you love your corner fruit stand and want to support him over the big supermarket across town. However, you notice that it is getting harder to buy bananas. When you ask about it, the response is "oranges are the new thing, nobody wants bananas anymore". But I want bananas; "well we can bring them in but you have to give us 3 weeks notice and the price will be $2 a pound". The next day your wife drags you into the supermarket and they have 6 different kinds of bananas and the price is $.75 a pound. The fruit merchant continues to get your business as you want to support the little guy but he rolls his eyes when you order and sometimes it is more than 3 weeks to get bananas. How long do you keep going to the little guy before it becomes obvious he just doesn't care about being your fruit vendor anymore? My camera store just doesn't care about being my camera store anymore.

jacarape · Jan 13, 2011

That is the first post that ever compared oranges to bananas, better than steam locomotives to Kodachrome!

Jeff Bannow · Jan 13, 2011

Kevin Kehler;1121731When you ask about it said:
Or even worse, that bananas have been discontinued.

Note From HARMAN technology Limited : Re Price Increases

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