Non-IR specific Panchromatic Film with 720nm+ Sensitivity?

kb244 · Mar 8, 2017

I noticed that Rollei 80S and 400S retro films have extended sensitivity, so I was curious are there other panchromatic B&W films out there (mainly in 35mm) that have IR sensitivity past 720nm?

Reason I ask is because I'm curious if there's any that I can throw my Hoya R72 filter on and get an image (will be TTL metering), or alternatively throw an R25 onto and get both Red and IR.

AgX · Mar 8, 2017

Aside of of these Agfa-manufactured films the only resting film of that kind in 35mm is from IlfordPhoto, their SFX 200.

kb244 · Mar 8, 2017

AgX said:
Aside of of these Agfa-manufactured films the only resting film of that kind in 35mm is from IlfordPhoto, their SFX 200.

Hrm, SFX200 does show it being sensitive to 740nm, I wonder if I would be cutting it too thin with a R72 filter (though it says peak sensitivity at 720nm, extended to 740 with a deep red filter).

The only available Agfa branded B&W film I can see least over here is APX 100 and 400 which drops off around 650nm on the spectrum.

Since SFX 200 and Rollei 80s/400s are nearly the same in price, I'm wondering which of the three would be more to my taste when used with either an R25 or R72 filter in front, but still decent if I were to use without them for indoor stuff in a pinch (but with my preference wanting the red filtered stuff looking better). It's my understanding that on the Rollei side you get a bit of a 'glow' with something like an R25 as the infrared end shows up more than unfiltered.

bdial · Mar 8, 2017

I shoot my SFX without filtering quite a lot. A glow is not something I've noticed. It is pretty grainy though, I don't know how it compares with the Agfa for that.
To me, the grain seems reminiscent of 70's Tri-X.

kb244 · Mar 8, 2017

bdial said:
I shoot my SFX without filtering quite a lot. A glow is not something I've noticed. It is pretty grainy though, I don't know how it compares with the Agfa for that.
To me, the grain seems reminiscent of 70's Tri-X.

... I love Tri-X (least all the old expired 70s stock I went thru already). I developed a 2016 roll week ago... not quite what I remembered I wonder what they changed, but then it's been awhile since I last shot it.

Looking at TX's technical data its sensitivity drops before 650, so SFX might be ticket to a retro TX-like emulsion but with deeper red sensitivity, I wonder if they sell that in bulk rolls if I like the singles.

AgX · Mar 8, 2017

With curves one has to consider:

-) the extend of sensitivity in the spectral range
-) the amplitude (height) of sensitivity at that spectral position
-) the curve-form of the respective filter
-) the spectral distribution and amplitude of the exposing light

With the Agfa-manufactured films I referred to the respective films from Maco branded as Rollei.

kb244 · Mar 8, 2017

AgX said:
With curves one has to consider:

-) the extend of sensitivity in the spectral range
-) the amplitude (height) of sensitivity at that spectral position
-) the curve-form of the respective filter
-) the spectral distribution and amplitude of the exposing light

With the Agfa-manufactured films I referred to the respective films from Maco branded as Rollei.

I was looking more or less where it peaked. Since just hitting the end wouldn't be too useful if it's real low on the sensitivity (ie is reactive to it, but not very sensitive).

For example I was just looking at Arista edu ultra 200 (aka foam 200) which I have a bulk roll of and like the look of the grain. On its chart it's a steady upward incline towards red peaking out just about 600-650nm and dropping off sharply just before 700.

On something like SFX or Rollei 80s what I would trying to aim for is the high contrast outdoors created by a deep red or infrared filter. (AEU 200 is a pretty low contrast film I noticed, otherwise I'd try it with a R25)

pentaxuser · Mar 8, 2017

Ilford SFX is fine with a R72 filter. In fact it has to be this filter to give the genuine "Wood Effect". With a red 25 you will get very dark skies and water in the right light conditions but the really white wispy-looking foliage is missing

pentaxuser

greg zinselmeier · Mar 8, 2017

Rollei retro 80s, super pan 200, and 400s is all Agfa ava-hot, you can look on Agfas website for all AGX recommendations. But really you should buy a filter and go out and shot , and shot keep track of your exposures, rating and development. through experience you will find what works for you. you also can look up on this website other peoples work with the filter.

greg zinselmeier · Mar 8, 2017

avaphot not ava -hot

Oldwino · Mar 8, 2017

Doesn't the new one from Bergger (400 Pancro) have some extended sensitivity?

Martin Rickards · Mar 8, 2017

I cant remember where, but I read recenyly that Foma 400 can produce IR light effects rated at 25 ASA and with a suitable filter.

mooseontheloose · Mar 8, 2017

I've used both the Rollei Retro 80s and 400s successfully with my R72 filter. I did some testing with both films with no, yellow, orange, red, and infrared filters to see what the different effects would be. I don't have access to the scans (if I did any) at the moment, but I'll try to find them and post them later.

DWThomas · Mar 8, 2017

I shot a 120 roll of SFX200 with a series of filters down to a Wratten 89B which I understand to be about a 695nm cutoff (I didn't have the plumbing hardware to mount my R72 on the camera I used). There was some definite Wood effect with the 89B. Since it was 120 in 6x6 format, the grain did not seem unusual, but likely wouldn't.

(I have the scans out on PBase.)

A few years back I also successfully shot the film identified as Rollei IR400 using a 760nm cutoff filter, it just required about five or six stops more exposure than needed with a 720. So you can do work out on that end of the spectral curve, but it can be tedious (and might be different for different films depending on the specific spectral curves).

NB23 · Mar 8, 2017

SFX200 is gorgeous!!!! Yes, has that true Tri-X look, not this unflavored tri-x of nowadays.

I use it with a 092 B+W filter

destroya · Mar 8, 2017

i use RR80s and 400s as my everyday 35mm films. I love the clear synthetic base, which makes simple scanning great, but also makes developing them as slides awesome. RR80s is without a doubt the best B&W film I have made into slides. on rangfinder forum, Jan made a great review of RR80s a few years ago thats worth reading. I can shoot it in 35mm and get very high definition results that i would sometimes need to use a 645 at least in the past. yeh you get the typical 35mm oversize enlargement if you go to far, but the resolution of it along with the minimal grain makes it fun to print. I also love that they are both traditional grained films. I seem to be moving away from t-grain films for some reason and they both give me the results I like. RR80s in beutler is amazing. give them both a try. I found i need to shoot the 80s at 50 in pyrocat-hd and 80 in Beutler. the 400s/superpan at 160 for both pyro-hd and buetler. when using an R72 filter, I use box speeds and subtract filter factor to get to the proper EI for them. going a stop slower just adds to the wood effect.

if you like them, buy from germany. even with shipping, bulk rolls work out to almost half the cost of buying them from B&H or freestyle. not sure why though.

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 8, 2017

As mentioned, SFX is the film you're looking for. I've used it in medium format and love it. Shot it through red 29, and 72r. I have an image in my gallery. I believe it's on the last page...

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 8, 2017

Just realised you cannot view galleries unless you're a subscriber...

aleckurgan · Mar 8, 2017

Martin Rickards said:
I cant remember where, but I read recenyly that Foma 400 can produce IR light effects rated at 25 ASA and with a suitable filter.

Fomapan 400 can definitely show the Wood effect with an R72 filter, but should be rated at around EI6.

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 8, 2017

That's great, Alec. Is the middle image with the R72 and a higher EI? The last one really looks like Rollei IR.

kb244 · Mar 8, 2017

aleckurgan said:
Fomapan 400 can definitely show the Wood effect with an R72 filter, but should be rated at around EI6.

I wonder if Foma 200 can (since thats what I have currently).

Far as rating ISO 6, that shouldn't be too hard since I'm used to doing that with the bulk roll of Kodak Ultratec I have, though that's blue-sensitive only (ortho)

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 8, 2017

Yes, it should work, Karl. It's sensitive just past 700nm as well. On a bright, sunny day, EI 6 is no problem as I always work with a tripod.

kb244 · Mar 8, 2017

Andrew O'Neill said:
Yes, it should work, Karl. It's sensitive just past 700nm as well. On a bright, sunny day, EI 6 is no problem as I always work with a tripod.

Hem I'll have to try it sometimes, thought maybe it wouldn't be, because the 200 speed stuff is not the same stuff as the 100/400 speed stuff as it uses an older tabular grain.

aleckurgan · Mar 8, 2017

Andrew O'Neill said:
That's great, Alec. Is the middle image with the R72 and a higher EI? The last one really looks like Rollei IR.

Yes, the one in the middle is EI6, EI400 without filter on the left (all TTL measured with Canon 50). This was developed for box speed, with extended development the one in the middle will look better. Actually I tested Fomapan 400 with R72 from EI25 to EI1,5 and got the Wood effect at all speeds, the difference was in the amount of shadow detail.

kb244 · Apr 4, 2017

Since one of my hosting clients paid their yearly, I went ahead and paid up server dues and what not, and went ahead and ordered a B+W 092 as well as two rolls of Ilford SFX200 hopefully to arrive by Thursday since it'll be sunny on Saturday. Interested to see how it works since the 092 seems to give about 50% for 695nm~720nm, but then >90% for 730nm~2000nm (As opposed to my Hoya R72 which blocks all light below 720nm, and drops off around 850nm) That and I'm thinking the B+W will probably be of higher quality in the long run.

Also it seems for near-IR the 50% passing shortly before 700nm on the B+W means I can use it as a deep red on some non-IR panchromatic film since it gives a filter factor of 20-40. So that could be useful too. (probably also means I could get a more pronounced 'false color' on digital).

Non-IR specific Panchromatic Film with 720nm+ Sensitivity?

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Non-IR specific Panchromatic Film with 720nm+ Sensitivity?

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