No more Arista Premium 400? Hmm......

AgX · Feb 22, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Ilford is two parts, related only by name. Harman, that operates Ilford Photo and Kentmere. Then there's a company (in Switzerland I think) that makes inkjet paper. The 'other' Ilford used to make Ilfochrome paper and chemistry, up until about half a year ago.

Actually both are related by history. The part that bears the name Ilford the shorter time is legally the true Ilford as since long it is their company name. Ilford Photo is actually only a brand name of the other company, though historically the older Ilford, but lost Ilford as company name.

StoneNYC · Feb 23, 2013

Thanks Matt, Thomas, AgX.

I knew I wasn't totally crazy, I remembered ilfochrome being mentioned more than once in regard to chrome papers.

What about the chemistry? I have a guy who will make me a few chrome prints, because he has lots of paper, but has NO chemistry to process it... Who makes that?

PS had no idea Kentmere was also Ilford. Hmmm...

~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

AgX · Feb 23, 2013

The print-chemistries were made by Ilford. They are now stated as discontinued.

cmacd123 · Feb 7, 2015

well, Freestyle mentioned on Facebook that the LAST of the Arista Premium 400 has left the building

Newt_on_Swings · Feb 8, 2015

cmacd123 said:
well, Freestyle mentioned on Facebook that the LAST of the Arista Premium 400 has left the building

That's very sad to hear. What a good film that students and educators could afford. This will change things as I don't think the edu/foma films are comparable and the real deal is quite over priced. What's to fill the gap now?

RattyMouse · Feb 8, 2015

Newt_on_Swings said:
That's very sad to hear. What a good film that students and educators could afford. This will change things as I don't think the edu/foma films are comparable and the real deal is quite over priced. What's to fill the gap now?

Kentemere.

Ricardo Miranda · Feb 8, 2015

Kentemere.

It is actually Kentmere.
Or they can buy Foma.
All fresh from the factory. No slitting from frozen master rolls in there.

cmacd123 · Feb 8, 2015

Kentmere is proably the best price/quality of the currently available stocks. probably the only thing less expensive per shot would be loading from 400Ft rolls of Filmotec N74, and that would be a logistical problem for a student.

The EDU.Ultra is also curently in Non DX coded cassettes, which can be an annoyance with recent models of 35mm cameras - particularly the Point and shoot type that students may be asked to use to emphasize Composition.

Looking at Freestyles page, the EDU.Ultra is only 3 bucks (but is out of stock) and at their current sale prices, real 400TX Tri-x is 4.67 while kentmere is 4.89. the foma branded fomapan is 4.19. HP5 is 5.59 to round out the popular price stocks. Other dealers may have a different take on which is cheeper.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 8, 2015

Tri-X and HP5+ are still pretty affordable, and very good quality. I haven't tried the Kentmere, but am currently working through some Ilford Pan 400, which is supposed to be similar, and it's really great film too.

If I was working with Arista Premium before, I'd just continue to buy Tri-X in the yellow box. Focus on the results and soon it becomes clear that it's better to continue with what's known. Unless you like to experiment, of course.

Less cost can also mean that you know what to expect once you print the negs. That means a lot less darkroom waste.

Xmas · Feb 8, 2015

Newt_on_Swings said:
That's very sad to hear. What a good film that students and educators could afford. This will change things as I don't think the edu/foma films are comparable and the real deal is quite over priced. What's to fill the gap now?

If you can't take photos with Forma film you are not much of a student.

Xmas · Feb 8, 2015

cmacd123 said:
...probably the only thing less expensive per shot would be loading from 400Ft rolls of Filmotec N74, and that would be a logistical problem for a student.

It is easy to spool off 100 foot in a changing bag even from a 1000 foot cine core. If you are poor enough.

Newt_on_Swings · Feb 8, 2015

Xmas said:
If you can't take photos with Forma film you are not much of a student.

I teach students as young as 6 years old up to 18, every advantage they can get makes the whole process easier, not just the capture, but loading onto reels, developing, and printing. The latitude afforded by tri x in both exposure and processing helps a bunch, as well as the durability of the film when handled wet by inexperienced hands. I have in the past ordered about 100 rolls of arista edu to test, in 100 and 400 but I always went back to the arista premium. When plus x went away there was a gap that wasn't filled either on the arista premium line, with the 400 totally gone now there is sure to be an impact in photo programs and budget minded photographers.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 8, 2015

Newt_on_Swings said:
I teach students as young as 6 years old up to 18, every advantage they can get makes the whole process easier, not just the capture, but loading onto reels, developing, and printing. The latitude afforded by tri x in both exposure and processing helps a bunch, as well as the durability of the film when handled wet by inexperienced hands. I have in the past ordered about 100 rolls of arista edu to test, in 100 and 400 but I always went back to the arista premium. When plus x went away there was a gap that wasn't filled either on the arista premium line, with the 400 totally gone now there is sure to be an impact in photo programs and budget minded photographers.

How about bulk loading?

And please do check out the Kentmere. Made by Ilford it is really high quality stuff. I've shot with HP5+ for a while now and it is just as tolerant as Tri-X, and I expect Kentmere to be extremely similar to HP5+.
Especially the 100 speed is very inexpensive!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/searc...N=4294548524+4019732826+4130468181+4291390680

Newt_on_Swings · Feb 8, 2015

Bulk loading would bring it down a bit, but paying me for the time to bulk load it would effectively cancel out any savings. And I'm not totally against edu/foma. All the paper we use is arista edu and our 4x5 film is arista edu as well. Just the 35mm and 120 lacks a bit. Hp5 is great, in the past I had loaded up tons of it for the program when it was buy one get one free. If kentmere were closer in price it would be a good substitute.

trythis · Feb 9, 2015

I went with Kentmere for the price, I like it very much and will buy it again for the look.

Thomas Bertilsson · Feb 9, 2015

Newt_on_Swings said:
Bulk loading would bring it down a bit, but paying me for the time to bulk load it would effectively cancel out any savings. And I'm not totally against edu/foma. All the paper we use is arista edu and our 4x5 film is arista edu as well. Just the 35mm and 120 lacks a bit. Hp5 is great, in the past I had loaded up tons of it for the program when it was buy one get one free. If kentmere were closer in price it would be a good substitute.

Kentmere is $2.95 a roll in ISO 100. That's pretty close to what Arista Premium 100 cost in the day.

Kentmere 400 is $3.95 a roll, still the least expensive ISO 400 film out there, except for Arista 400.

The thing about the Arista/Foma, as you mentioned before, is that in 35mm it just isn't as technically refined as the Kodak or Ilford. But it does have some charms too. The ISO 200 film is closer in performance to the Tri-X and HP5+ than the 400 is. It sort of looks like the old Tri-X before it was reinvented when Kodak built a new coating facility back around the year 2000. The Foma/Arista has worse antihalation, so blooming occurs in bright/dark adjacent areas of the film (35mm only). So you have to watch it when you shoot a bit more. Then it also reacts much faster to development changes and requires a more careful hand when processing. But use developers diluted so that you get longer developing times, and then that makes the 'difficulty' of getting it right time wise a bit more manageable.
When properly tested (by you), exposed and processed, the Foma 400 is a wonderful film, capable of stunning results.

Anyway, I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Xmas · Feb 9, 2015

Newt_on_Swings said:
When plus x went away there was a gap that wasn't filled either on the arista premium line, with the 400 totally gone now there is sure to be an impact in photo programs and budget minded photographers.

Your age range is good, but some photogs drop off at pharmacy.
But I've only used kodak when it was expired or cheap. Never Plus x.
I don't see any problem in Foma or Ilford.
What impact do you see using acid stop and tempering solutions?

jbmia · Feb 9, 2015

Going back to the original topic...

I just saw the post on their facebook page in the comments. I was there in August (2014) and they had like 40,000 24exp rolls at the time.. (I could be off +/- 20k rolls, but I recall they had a lot)... They had it on their web store in December as well. Is it a coincidence that they all had December 2014 expiration dates and now that it's January 2015, they're all gone? My impression from talking to them was that once the 36 exp rolls were gone, the 24's weren't moving as fast. My guess, and it's purely a guess, is that once the film expired they just took it off their web site and dumped it since it wasn't moving and it was now expired. I imagine it took up significant space and they just made a call... Again, no flames, but that would be my impression. And, if accurate, would be kind of ironic given some of the boo hoo, the film is gone, comments on that facebook post... BTW, I bought 100 rolls of the 24 exp stuff last year and still have a bunch in the freezer in a plastic tote next to the costco chicken! ;-)

Oh yeah.. one thing to add.. you can buy 100ft bulk rolls of Delta 400 for $61.95 (free shipping) from B&H right now.. Taking all other bulk rolls costs out of the equation, @ 18 36exp rolls I would say that's "budget minded".

blockend · Feb 10, 2015

For the brave, Lucky 100 is probably the cheapest film around, retailing at £1.70 per roll in a brick of ten last time I bought some. The film base is thin, but my Tri-X always curls for that matter. DX coding shows 200 ISO. Semi stand in Rodinal clones for 90 minutes, Lucky gives quite attractive negatives. The anti-halation layer is negligible, so expect some light bleed into shadows, nice if you like that kind of thing. Place it under heavy books for a few days to kill the curl.

For faster film I've moved to HP5+ from Tri-X. Ilford is more expensive in the UK than anywhere, bizarrely.

Xmas · Feb 10, 2015

blockend said:
For faster film I've moved to HP5+ from Tri-X. Ilford is more expensive in the UK than anywhere, bizarrely.

But that is true of everything, this is rip off Britain.

http://www.processuk.net/HP5_PLUS_400_35mm_x_30m_Bulk_Roll/p740597_3426769.aspx

blockend · Feb 10, 2015

The only film pricing we win on is Poundland Agfa Vista.

cmacd123 · Feb 10, 2015

jbmia said:
My impression from talking to them was that once the 36 exp rolls were gone, the 24's weren't moving as fast. My guess, and it's purely a guess, is that once the film expired they just took it off their web site and dumped it since it wasn't moving and it was now expired. I imagine it took up significant space and they just made a call... .

ALl things are possible, but when I was just starting out in Photography, Freestyle always ad a very densely populated ad in the back of Popular Photography. listing all sorts of film ranging from B&W short ends from Hollywood, to re slit areo film, movie film, bulk film, and manufacturer distress stock. The tag line on the ad was "unless listed as fresh all items are outdated but fully guaranteed"

While in todays environment there is less manufacturers overstocks and no military surplus film, I can't imagine the date meaning anything to them other than changing the wording from "Short date Special" to "Past Date Special".

Freestyles customers will order film by the 100 roll pack, and college bookstores by more.

Ricardo Miranda · Feb 10, 2015

blockend said:
For the brave, Lucky 100 is probably the cheapest film around, retailing at £1.70 per roll in a brick of ten last time I bought some. The film base is thin, but my Tri-X always curls for that matter. DX coding shows 200 ISO. Semi stand in Rodinal clones for 90 minutes, Lucky gives quite attractive negatives. The anti-halation layer is negligible, so expect some light bleed into shadows, nice if you like that kind of thing. Place it under heavy books for a few days to kill the curl.

For faster film I've moved to HP5+ from Tri-X. Ilford is more expensive in the UK than anywhere, bizarrely.

Sorry, I have bad news for you: the last time I saw Lucky SHD100 it was nearly £20 a brick.
The real bad news is that it is very difficult to find it now.
Rumour goes that it has been discontinued.
But, I haven't seen any official notification.

This is one of the cheapest you can find now: http://www.processuk.net/Fomapan_100_35mm_x_305m/p740597_12022375.aspx
Or http://www.processuk.net/Fomapan_100_135-36/p740597_12022352.aspx

Xmas · Feb 10, 2015

Ricardo Miranda said:
Sorry, I have bad news for you: the last time I saw Lucky SHD100 it was nearly £20 a brick.
The real bad news is that it is very difficult to find it now.
Rumour goes that it has been discontinued.
But, I haven't seen any official notification.

This is one of the cheapest you can find now: http://www.processuk.net/Fomapan_100_35mm_x_305m/p740597_12022375.aspx
Or http://www.processuk.net/Fomapan_100_135-36/p740597_12022352.aspx

Dead Link Removed

?

pbromaghin · Feb 10, 2015

Kentmere 100ft rolls come out about 1/2 the price of pre-rolled at Freestyle right now. Not bad.

No more Arista Premium 400? Hmm......

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