No Buzz About Phase One 150MP Back?

[1kgcoffee]

Besides a large filesize, I wonder what 150MP even gets you for the cool price of 15k? What, that I can't get with my Kiev 6c, 35 year old lenses and Velvia 50? The only reason for this is bragging rights and to separate oneself in the professional market.

 

[Ces1um]

Meanwhile, everyone has gone gaga over the Nikon Z7 with a measly 45MP in a much smaller sensor.

Gaga? From what I've seen everyone cancelled their preorders because it only has one card slot. Youtube has pretty much panned it- although some people have started turning around on it. Sometimes I think those reviewers do crazy stuff like that just to stir up controversy just to improve views on their channel.

 

[faberryman]

Gaga? From what I've seen everyone cancelled their preorders because it only has one card slot. Youtube has pretty much panned it- although some people have started turning around on it. Sometimes I think those reviewers do crazy stuff like that just to stir up controversy just to improve views on their channel.

Most of what I have seen has been extremely positive (other than one card slot). Not sure why you need two card slots unless you you are shooting weddings, and from what you read, all the wedding photographers are now shooting film, so it it not really an issue.

 

[Ai Print]

Anyhoo no-one cares about the resolution if it's a nice photo. I know it sounds cliche.

Until they engage with it and have that "Holy crap!" exclamation. Trust me, more and more people are starting to take notice.

 

[Ai Print]

Gaga? From what I've seen everyone cancelled their preorders because it only has one card slot. Youtube has pretty much panned it- although some people have started turning around on it.

Might want to wash that blanket statement, 4 people I know who are local and fellow working photogs are sticking with their Z7 pre-orders. I am also keeping my preorder for the Z6, one card slot has never been an issue for me and I have been using digital cameras for work since 1994.

 

[Ces1um]

Might want to wash that blanket statement, 4 people I know who are local and fellow working photogs are sticking with their Z7 pre-orders. I am also keeping my preorder for the Z6, one card slot has never been an issue for me and I have been using digital cameras for work since 1994.

Fair enough, "everyone" is a bit of an exaggeration. That being said, the initial reaction on youtube was less than stellar. Some youtubers defended Nikon but I personally saw far more who were quite annoyed by the lack of the second card.

 

[spijker]

Fair enough, "everyone" is a bit of an exaggeration. That being said, the initial reaction on youtube was less than stellar. Some youtubers defended Nikon but I personally saw far more who were quite annoyed but the lack of the second card.

It seems that many people have a different opinion. Read this: https://petapixel.com/2018/08/28/nikon-is-sorry-that-the-z7-is-selling-so-quickly. Personally, I'm more interested in Canon's contribution which is supposedly announced next week. But I'm in no rush to pre-order. It's equally funny that the Canon 6DmkII sells remarkably well despite all the bashing that was done at the introduction.

With respect to the original topic, the Phase One 150MP back. I'm sure it will create a stellar image quality if the photographer does all the right things (tripod, focusing, lens quality etc). It supposedly works better with technical camera's than the IQ3 backs. It is completely out of my price and usage range. But you can be assured that Sony and Phase One did a business case before starting the development of the sensor and back. So there must be a sufficiently large (estimated) clientele for it. Probably because it has two card slots.

 

[Cholentpot]

Until they engage with it and have that "Holy crap!" exclamation. Trust me, more and more people are starting to take notice.

More and more geeks, nerds and fanboys. Average Joe who is paying per hour to have Max's Bar Mitzvah recorded doesn't care. And Joe Goldberg is 90% of everyone.

If I had the money I would fall into the geeks, nerds and fanboi category. Alas I'm don't and have to be blown away by the 20.2mp sensor of my aging DSLR.

 

[faberryman]

Taking the position that since you can't afford it it is not needed is irrational. Technology eventually trickles down. The fact that the technology in Phase One's 50MP back from a couple of years ago now appears in the Fuji GFX and Hasselblad X1D is evidence of that. I can't afford a Phase One with any back either, and while I make do with my 16/24MP cameras, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate Phase One's capabilities. I may look into the possibility of renting one for a project to see what I am really missing. From the demo files I've seen, the 100MP back is stellar.

You know, you rarely hear people say that 35mm is all that you need and that 6x6, 4x5, 8x10, ULF is just overkill. It is a different way of working and the results are different. You may prefer one format over another for your type of photography, but there is no denying the difference. For some, it is about taking your breath away when you experience a large print from a large negative.

 

[Ai Print]

More and more geeks, nerds and fanboys. Average Joe who is paying per hour to have Max's Bar Mitzvah recorded doesn't care. And Joe Goldberg is 90% of everyone.

Oh now come on, LOL!
Are you really implying that the other 10% ( which is 100% of my customer base ) is not equally as relevant when trying to consider all aspects of why someone might make owning a hi res camera / back a higher priority than others?

I am sitting here doing invoices in my living room and across the way above the fireplace is a 30x40 from a photo I made with a 50MP Hasselblad back. Even at 10-12 feet away it looks eerily sharp. When I walk up to it...and everyone who has been to our house has, the detail just keeps pulling you in.

The same effect applies to Apple's Retina displays on phones and computers. There was never anything wrong with the older ones really but the new ones are distinctly engaging.

 

[Cholentpot]

Oh now come on, LOL!
Are you really implying that the other 10% ( which is 100% of my customer base ) is not equally as relevant when trying to consider all aspects of why someone might make owning a hi res camera / back a higher priority than others?

I am sitting here doing invoices in my living room and across the way above the fireplace is a 30x40 from a photo I made with a 50MP Hasselblad back. Even at 10-12 feet away it looks eerily sharp. When I walk up to it...and everyone who has been to our house has, the detail just keeps pulling you in.

The same effect applies to Apple's Retina displays on phones and computers. There was never anything wrong with the older ones really but the new ones are distinctly engaging.

I'm explaining the lack of hype.

Most working photographers are not lucky enough to have your line of work. We're the blue collar shlubs that use a 5D3 or D800 with a 24-105/120 lens and a bag of speedlights. A huge megapix back for a MF camera won't really get us all that excited while a shiny new mirror-less that we very well some day in the near future use will make us sit up and notice.

If I was in the market for a 150 megapixel back I would be jumping out of my chair. As is I'm following the reintroduction of Ektachrome much closer.

 

[Ai Print]

I'm explaining the lack of hype.

Most working photographers are not lucky enough to have your line of work. We're the blue collar shlubs that use a 5D3 or D800 with a 24-105/120 lens and a bag of speedlights. A huge megapix back for a MF camera won't really get us all that excited while a shiny new mirror-less that we very well some day in the near future use will make us sit up and notice.

If I was in the market for a 150 megapixel back I would be jumping out of my chair. As is I'm following the reintroduction of Ektachrome much closer.

I totally understand, but my string of replies don't really have to do with the levels of hype.

I just have to weigh in sometimes when I hear something along the lines of moving away from enlightening and inclusive talking points and towards one size fits all absolutes. My replies started when Eric said no one on Photrio needs or uses hi res backs. I corrected him on that and then you replied.....and thus we are here...

 

[Cholentpot]

I totally understand, but my string of replies don't really have to do with the levels of hype.

I just have to weigh in sometimes when I hear something along the lines of moving away from enlightening and inclusive talking points and towards one size fits all absolutes. My replies started when Eric said no one on Photrio needs or uses hi res backs. I corrected him on that and then you replied.....and thus we are here...

Ah yes, good 'ol dialog.

So you got an old unused MF digital back for me? I got some expired Hp5+ that I'll trade...

 

[Bob Carnie]

I posted the following somewhere here before but I think it worth repeating here.

In the early 80's I worked at a Mural house that printed from 8 x10 VPS and VPL negatives to 72 inch by 8 ft and beyond single sheet prints. the quality was outstanding.(these prints have faded btw)
In 2017 I printed a show for Rita Leistner that hung at the Stephen Bulger Gallery and the prints were 58 inch x 82 inch in size using ink jet. the quality is outstanding . (not sure how long these prints will last)

When standing in the gallery and walking up to the prints from this Camera System was the first time since 1982 that I felt that the images gave me the same rush , and feel of quality of 8 x10 colour neg.
After this show , 5 of my clients purchased the phase one, many here claim the camera is silly price but the reality is people out there do buy these cameras and they are buying them for this very reason(the ability to make super size prints)

Anyone here claiming that a D800 Dslr can match the quality of one of these systems is frankly full of s.... and I cannot listen to their completely uniformed nonsense,
This will be the norm in 5 years 100mp PLUS ,
how the Manufacturers fight it out to get your business is irrelevant.

I look forward to the 10 ft wide ink printers that can make life size images.

 

[Eric Rose]

Anyone here claiming that a D800 Dslr can match the quality of one of these systems is frankly full of s.... and I cannot listen to their completely uniformed nonsense,

I never said that a D800 equals a 150Mp back. What I said was for the vast majority of commercial photographers and their clients a 150Mp back is not necessary for the print and online media they need. The requirements for "art" photographers is very different and that is a very small subset of the photographic equipment buying public. I don't dispute that the images from a 150Mp back must be stunning, just that in the real world of the working professional it's overkill and doesn't represent an intelligent ROI. In 5 or so years the price of FF or MF 150Mp cameras will in my opinion make economic sense for the average working professional photographer. This is based on the historical progress of digital cameras to date.

Eric

 

[Bob Carnie]

I was not aiming this at you Eric.. but I have heard this kind of statement over the years... basically it comes from one defending their purchase,product, equipment . Not based on real viewable facts. I am not talking about economic sense either but just putting out thoughts about what I see day to day here in my shop.

 

[MattKing]

I look forward to the 10 ft wide ink printers that can make life size images.

Bob:
10 feet life size - you must be taller than I had heard.
A high megapixel back seems to be ideally suited to the rental equipment market.
For most, it would be a special purpose accessory. And most wouldn't want to have to deal regularly with the file sizes that it puts out.
But "most" is different from "all".
In days not too far past one wouldn't have expected to see "buzz" about this sort of product generally. The "buzz" would only be found in trade publications and professional photographers' communications, and it would still be "niche" there.
But nowadays so many expect information about stuff like this to be in every photographer's news feed.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Oh no the first eye phone was capable of making life size images of me... Dinesh would verify that.

 

[Eric Rose]

Bob your a "giant" in our eyes

 

[Ai Print]

I posted the following somewhere here before but I think it worth repeating here.

In the early 80's I worked at a Mural house that printed from 8 x10 VPS and VPL negatives to 72 inch by 8 ft and beyond single sheet prints. the quality was outstanding.(these prints have faded btw)
In 2017 I printed a show for Rita Leistner that hung at the Stephen Bulger Gallery and the prints were 58 inch x 82 inch in size using ink jet. the quality is outstanding . (not sure how long these prints will last)

When standing in the gallery and walking up to the prints from this Camera System was the first time since 1982 that I felt that the images gave me the same rush , and feel of quality of 8 x10 colour neg.
After this show , 5 of my clients purchased the phase one, many here claim the camera is silly price but the reality is people out there do buy these cameras and they are buying them for this very reason(the ability to make super size prints)

Anyone here claiming that a D800 Dslr can match the quality of one of these systems is frankly full of s.... and I cannot listen to their completely uniformed nonsense,
This will be the norm in 5 years 100mp PLUS ,
how the Manufacturers fight it out to get your business is irrelevant.

I look forward to the 10 ft wide ink printers that can make life size images.

Thanks for weighing in, I get a bit worn down by the whole narrative of "No one needs 100MP" and "Pro photography is dead, no one makes money off it anymore".

The funny thing is I have seen the difference that a larger image area can attain in terms of detail back in the 90's on magazine covers which are printed at around 8.5" x 11" at 300 dpi. For years I would be able to instantly tell if a cover of Outdoor Photographer was shot in large format chrome compared to 35mm and could with a fair amount of ease, tell the difference between those other two and medium format. And this is on a glossy magazine cover, not a 30x40" Ciba print.

Even if only a small portion of the entirety of working professional photographers, to omit or disregard those who would the likely be a user of these niche tools is an act of turning a blind eye to facts and is a disservice to the validity of the point being made. Us non-wedding photographers matter too.

 

[Cholentpot]

I posted the following somewhere here before but I think it worth repeating here.

In the early 80's I worked at a Mural house that printed from 8 x10 VPS and VPL negatives to 72 inch by 8 ft and beyond single sheet prints. the quality was outstanding.(these prints have faded btw)
In 2017 I printed a show for Rita Leistner that hung at the Stephen Bulger Gallery and the prints were 58 inch x 82 inch in size using ink jet. the quality is outstanding . (not sure how long these prints will last)

When standing in the gallery and walking up to the prints from this Camera System was the first time since 1982 that I felt that the images gave me the same rush , and feel of quality of 8 x10 colour neg.
After this show , 5 of my clients purchased the phase one, many here claim the camera is silly price but the reality is people out there do buy these cameras and they are buying them for this very reason(the ability to make super size prints)

Anyone here claiming that a D800 Dslr can match the quality of one of these systems is frankly full of s.... and I cannot listen to their completely uniformed nonsense,
This will be the norm in 5 years 100mp PLUS ,
how the Manufacturers fight it out to get your business is irrelevant.

I look forward to the 10 ft wide ink printers that can make life size images.

I don't think people are claiming that 150mp backs are equal to a D800.

I think as per the title of the thread people are not getting overly enthused about a 150mp camera back because the majority of them will never see one let alone use one.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I am a bit surprised that on a photography site there are a Majority of them will never see one let alone use one. All that tells that they have probably lost interest , I would imagine if Brett Weston was alive he would be using one . Y/N ?

 

[Bob Carnie]

For the Record I cannot afford one of these backs, in fact I have never made a image with a digital camera, but I certainly am very curious about these devices and some day can envision renting one for a project or selling enough of my alternative prints to be able to buy one.

 

[faberryman]

I can understand how many might not be interesting in purchasing the IQ4 due to cost, but the antipathy is astounding.

 

[Bob Carnie]

One interesting aspect of these new devices is when will the manufacturers stop designing higher sensor capabilities and realize they have peaked out.?

For example I own a Lambda device which cost me over 1/4 million to purchase and over the years thousands of dollars to maintain and house, It needs a room to fit in.
I bought it in 2006 and it has allowed me to stay in business till now.

It was built in 1999 and now even 19 years later there is not a printing device on the market that can better it.. others can equal but not better.. what has happened to these devices they got smaller, cheaper and used different light units LED to expose , but now nobody would invest in a brand new lambda, it hit its maximum quality and they decided not to change something that was at the top of eye perception in print quality.


I wonder how close we are to that image point on standard camera formats?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I am a bit surprised that on a photography site there are a Majority of them will never see one let alone use one...

That indicates your estimation of how many PHOTRIO posters are professional photographers is far too high. Most amateurs who predominate in venues like this probably don't spend more than half the cost of an IQ4 back on their car. And they take out loans to buy the vehicle.