Nikon FM3a or Leica R8 / R9

[snusmumriken]

Hi all,

So... what would you get/prefer of a Nikon FM3a or Leica R8 / R9, and why?

The camera you are currently using might be relevant. Nikon and Leica lenses focus in opposite directions (likewise the aperture ring) and it is damn' confusing when you first make the switch.

 

[pkr1979]

Im using a Leica M6 and a Nikon F4... and Pentax 67ii, Fuji GX680iii and Cambo 8x10

 

[Paul Howell]

If you have a F4 why do want a R9, the F4 has all the features of the R9, not very good AF, but with AIS lens, a really good MF camera.

 

[Huss]

If you have a F4 why do want a R9, the F4 has all the features of the R9, not very good AF, but with AIS lens, a really good MF camera.

Owning both those cameras... the F4 is better if you want a camera that has AF. Otherwise the R9 handles much better, from meter mode selection to AE lock, to the way it fits in your hand. Don't get me wrong, I think the F4 is awesome and it is an insane deal. $250 for that? Wow.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Owning both those cameras... the F4 is better if you want a camera that has AF. Otherwise the R9 handles much better, from meter mode selection to AE lock, to the way it fits in your hand. Don't get me wrong, I think the F4 is awesome and it is an insane deal. $250 for that? Wow.

Even better is the F100 with all the features of the F4 and more with lower cost and weight. Now available with an improved door latch.

 

[millardmt]

Thanks guys, lots of useful feedback here. For 35mm these days Im using a Nikon F4 and a Leica M6. There are many things to appreciate with the M6, however I do prefer SLRs over rangefinders.

So, Im considering the R8/R9 as Id still like a Leica if I get rid of the M6, and the R8/9 design is awesome. What I would miss if ditching the M6 is a mechanical camera, hence the FM3a... I know, there are cameras like the FM2 (used to have one, and liked it), but having a mechanical camera with aperture priority is convenient. Its also smaller than the R8/9, which is a plus. Dependability is also important.

Just to be clear, an "electronic" camera is neither 'manual' nor 'mechanical.' The Nikon FM3a, FE, FE2, F3, Leica R8 (or R9), etc. -- these cameras and their ilk are electronic machines that incorporate 'automatic' functions. That's their explicit reason for being and, again, they represent the very antithesis of that which is implied by "manual."

Marc

(I prefer an analog metering needle too, but not at the expense of associated automation.)

 

[Paul Howell]

Even better is the F100 with all the features of the F4 and more with lower cost and weight. Now available with an improved door latch.

The F100 will not work with pre AI lens, but for most there are enough AI and AIs not mention AF lens that will work with the F100 to make for a prudent choice. For me, I would want the high speed battery grip.

 

[Huss]

The F4 appeals to those who like knobs instead of buttons and dials.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The F4 appeals to those who like knobs instead of buttons and dials.

And needs exercise.

 

[reddesert]

he ablJust to be clear, an "electronic" camera is neither 'manual' nor 'mechanical.' The Nikon FM3a, FE, FE2, F3, Leica R8 (or R9), etc. -- these cameras and their ilk are electronic machines that incorporate 'automatic' functions. That's their explicit reason for being and, again, they represent the very antithesis of that which is implied by "manual."

Marc

(I prefer an analog metering needle too, but not at the expense of associated automation.)

Most people use "manual" to mean a camera mode that allows the user to control ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, and focus. If you want to define a camera with electronics as not manual, that is your right, at the price of diminishing the ability to communicate.

By most definitions, light metering systems, even manual-mode meters that are only advisory, contain electronics. The Nikon FM even has LEDs, which are semiconductors! Of course, it would be possible to regain non-electronic Nirvana by using an extinction meter.

 

[pkr1979]

I used to have the F100 - I prefer the F4 for the reasons Huss mention and nostalgic ones. So, why Leica R8/9... Ive always liked the look of those cameras. And, Ive got the 60mm macro for the F4, which is a great lens but abit big (I dont use it for macro in particular but I do like to get close, and I like the 50+ focal length). And that became an excuse to consider the R8/R9 as I rarely use AF with that lens (should make the R8/9 a good choise). I dont know if the Leica 60mm macro is that much smaller though. The FM3a is also a camera that has an appeal to me... which would match up well with the 55mm macro. Yes, I know, the 55mm nikkor can also be used on the F4 but going down that road doesnt allow wasting my time considering other cameras.. Also, if I sell the M6 I will have to get another mechanical camera (one that can be used without electricity), not because I value mechanical cameras more then electronic ones, but just because...

 

[velvet]

They’re two very different cameras. The FM3A was largely made to celebrate Nikon’s past work on manual focus mechanical cameras by making the best one yet (I’d argue they succeeded.) While the R8 was Leica’s attempt at making their most advanced film camera yet, something to compete with the Nikon F5 and Canon EOS 1.

I think you have to figure out what you’re specifically looking for to make this kind of call.

How much is a mechanical shutter worth to you vs matrix metering and “advanced” flash control?

Do you want a smaller everyday carry camera or do you not mind some extra size and weight?

Do you want a lens mount that enables a highly versatile selection or do you favor glass with pedigree.

I don’t think there’s really a wrong answer here. Both are special and worthwhile cameras imo.

 

[Huss]

And needs exercise.

So, everyone.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

These days I recommend buying something that is likely to be repairable long term. The M system has a lot going for it in that regard, as well as lens support. Lots of Nikon AF bodies are being left behind, the F6 included. The FM/FE line are a good bet because they're probably mostly repairable and parts are easy to source. I like my F2 a lot. Seems like something that is just gonna work with occasional CLAs forever. Nikon, Zeiss, Voigtlander lenses...and a superior focus screen system. I like mine a lot.

 

[velvet]

These days I recommend buying something that is likely to be repairable long term. The M system has a lot going for it in that regard, as well as lens support. Lots of Nikon AF bodies are being left behind, the F6 included. The FM/FE line are a good bet because they're probably mostly repairable and parts are easy to source. I like my F2 a lot. Seems like something that is just gonna work with occasional CLAs forever. Nikon, Zeiss, Voigtlander lenses...and a superior focus screen system. I like mine a lot.

Repairability is exactly why I bought my FM3A. Call me paranoid but these cameras are only getting older and a lot of these excellent late era film cameras are finicky and difficult if not outright impossible to repair.

The killer feature of the FM3A for me is that long after the electronics kick the bucket and long after no one can repair them there’s still a mechanical shutter that should always be repairable.

Not to say no one should buy anything without a mechanical shutter, but it’s worth keeping in mind that the more electronics involved and the older it is the more of a time bomb your camera might be.

 

[Russ - SVP]

FM3a - or probably an FE2 because it has less plastic parts (well, I already have two of those).
Why? Lighter and more handy; lens availability and pricing and besides, Leica never really understood how to make an SLR that lived up to the brilliancy of their rangefinder cameras.
Nikon on the other hand ruled the SLR world for a couple of decades and the FM3a has the genes of those heydays.

According to my two camera repair buddies, the FE-2 is better built than the FM3A.

 

[Russ - SVP]

if you buy into the Sover Wong song....he always prefers the lithium batteries as not leaking. Claims all the rest leak.

I have yet to have a lithium battery leak. And I’ve been using them for decades.

 

[Russ - SVP]

Hi all,

The camera you are currently using might be relevant. Nikon and Leica lenses focus in opposite directions (likewise the aperture ring) and it is damn' confusing when you first make the switch.

I prefer my F3 and FE-2 over the FM3A. Better build and ergonomics.

 

[benveniste]

So... what would you get/prefer of a Nikon FM3a or Leica R8 / R9, and why?

A Nikon FM3A, but only because I own lenses which can work with it ranging from an 8mm fisheye to a 300mm f/2.8. IIRC, the last Leica R I handled was an R3 or an R4, and I don't remember much about it.

The FM3A always struck me as an "engineering for engineering sake" project from Nikon. While I can understand the "I might need that" appeal of an aperture priority camera which can function as a manual camera without batteries, feeding the FE2 batteries just wasn't that much of a hardship in the real world. So perhaps it's not surprising that the FM3A became a camera which was more collected than it was used.

In 2022, there's no rational reason for me to use a manual focus film camera. That hasn't stopped me continuing to use the Nikon FA I bought in the 1980's. If you are shooting for the sheer joy of it, choose which ever camera puts the bigger smile on your face. But if you are shooting film regularly and getting paid for it, or you have a time sensitive project, I'd consider a camera like an Nikon F3HP or Canon F1n which was designed and built for the long haul.

 

[Russ - SVP]

A Nikon FM3A, but only because I own lenses which can work with it ranging from an 8mm fisheye to a 300mm f/2.8. IIRC, the last Leica R I handled was an R3 or an R4, and I don't remember much about it.

The FM3A always struck me as an "engineering for engineering sake" project from Nikon. While I can understand the "I might need that" appeal of an aperture priority camera which can function as a manual camera without batteries, feeding the FE2 batteries just wasn't that much of a hardship in the real world. So perhaps it's not surprising that the FM3A became a camera which was more collected than it was used.

In 2022, there's no rational reason for me to use a manual focus film camera. That hasn't stopped me continuing to use the Nikon FA I bought in the 1980's. If you are shooting for the sheer joy of it, choose which ever camera puts the bigger smile on your face. But if you are shooting film regularly and getting paid for it, or you have a time sensitive project, I'd consider a camera like an Nikon F3HP or Canon F1n which was designed and built for the long haul.

The lithium battery in my F3 & FE-2 seem to last forever.

 

[benveniste]

The lithium battery in my F3 & FE-2 seem to last forever.

Do you use a 2L76? Even ye olde silver oxide batteries lasted quite a while.

 

[Russ - SVP]

Do you use a 2L76? Even ye olde silver oxide batteries lasted quite a while.

Duracell DL1/3N CR1/3N 2L76 5018LC 5008LC CR11108 K58L 3V Lithium Battery https://a.co/d/cHAvbdn

 

[Paul Howell]

After thinking about it, if I were go with a Leica it would a Leicaflex SL 1 or 2 or R8 or 9. The early R bodies use Minolta electronics which are starting to fad. The R8 and 9 are all Leica, not sure who made the chips and IC boards, but from I read they seem to be holding up. The Leicaflex SL 1 and 2 needs batteries for the meter, in 2 I think there is a led that lights up the aperture slight otherwise all mechanical.

 

[Huss]

After thinking about it, if I were go with a Leica it would a Leicaflex SL 1 or 2 or R8 or 9. The early R bodies use Minolta electronics which are starting to fad. The R8 and 9 are all Leica, not sure who made the chips and IC boards, but from I read they seem to be holding up. The Leicaflex SL 1 and 2 needs batteries for the meter, in 2 I think there is a led that lights up the aperture slight otherwise all mechanical.

The R5/R-E/R7 are rock solid. The R-E actually has just what is needed - Aperture AE and manual. The R5 has that plus program and shutter AE. R7 is the R5 but w fancier VF readout and serious flash tech. Downside it takes double the batteries, and is bigger. The R5/E is the perfect size.

 

[gone]

I've never had a Nikon camera break, so I personally wouldn't worry about reliability, whether it's a mechanical camera or a fully electronic one.

You can put Leica R lenses on a Nikon camera, as well as Nikon lenses. Other than T mount lenses, I think that Leica R cameras only work w/ Leica R lenses, if that makes any difference. A few people did make R mount third party lenses, but the Leica R lens system is outstanding for image quality and workmanship.

I once had a tiny Nikon FG w/ a Leica R 90 Summicon on it, that was a fun and light package.