Nikon FE2 vs Olympus OM-4T(i)

[Chan Tran]

The Oly automatic shutter speed doesn't depend on any meter reading until the mirror goes up. The initial shutter speed is what the meter reads off the dots on the shutter curtain. Only if the shutter speed is longer than the flash sync speed then light measurement is taken off the film. How do you measure off the film for shutter speed say 1/500 as the film never got uncovered completely.

 

[Les Sarile]

Just played with a OM4T. Lots fun but because there is wear and tear on it, I hearby declare it to butt ugly. Looks like when something plastic wears.

Declaring titanium to be like plastic is such a stretch of the imagination that it can only be possible if one was under considerable influence . . .

 

[Les Sarile]

Yoshihisa Maitani was a genius and came up with some fantastic cameras!

According to the May 1976 Modern Photography review of the OM2, OTF metering works different at 1/60 and above or less than 1/60. At 1/60 and above, it is off the first curtain. Below 1/60 and it is partially off the first curtain and film and will also adjust to the scene's lighting changes. I don't have a review of the OM4 so I am not certain if it continuous to work this way or not.

BTW, the only other camera that I know of that used OTF metering was the Pentax LX. This took the concept a bit further as it can meter for as long as it takes for a proper exposure or the battery dies - monitoring the scene for lighting changes and adjusting exposure in realtime.

 

[wblynch]

Even the lowly OM-10 had this technology.

 

[thuggins]

Yoshihisa Maitani was a genius and came up with some fantastic cameras!

According to the May 1976 Modern Photography review of the OM2, OTF metering works different at 1/60 and above or less than 1/60. At 1/60 and above, it is off the first curtain. Below 1/60 and it is partially off the first curtain and film and will also adjust to the scene's lighting changes. I don't have a review of the OM4 so I am not certain if it continuous to work this way or not.

BTW, the only other camera that I know of that used OTF metering was the Pentax LX. This took the concept a bit further as it can meter for as long as it takes for a proper exposure or the battery dies - monitoring the scene for lighting changes and adjusting exposure in realtime.

The OM2 and 4 both work that way. The only difference is that the 4 increased the longest autoexposure time (2 minutes on the 2's and 4 minutes onthe 4's, as I recall). This allows the OM's to produce beautiful night exposures with just the push of the shutter button. I've taken shots that range from 15 seconds to several minutes, lit by candles, firelight or starlight and every time they have come out perfectly exposed.

 

[Les Sarile]

More correctly I should have stated that besides the Olympus OM's, the Pentax LX uses OTF on all exposures - manual, aperture priority autoexposure and TTL flash.

Tim, The manual for the OM4T specifies an autoexposure of about 4 minutes - which is what I have managed to get on mine. So for the several minutes exposure you have gotten is that also autoexposure or just bulb?

 

[Chan Tran]

More correctly I should have stated that besides the Olympus OM's, the Pentax LX uses OTF on all exposures - manual, aperture priority autoexposure and TTL flash.

Tim, The manual for the OM4T specifies an autoexposure of about 4 minutes - which is what I have managed to get on mine. So for the several minutes exposure you have gotten is that also autoexposure or just bulb?

I wonder how it does OTF exposure in manual?

 

[Ulrich Drolshagen]

I wonder how it does OTF exposure in manual?

It doesn't

 

[Les Sarile]

Unlike the OM2 - which in manual mode has CDS in the viewfinder, the Pentax LX uses the same single SPC metering off the film plane.

 

[gliderbee]

Unlike the OM2 - which in manual mode has CDS in the viewfinder, the Pentax LX uses the same single SPC metering off the film plane.

How is that possible? It can't open the shutter to measure in manual mode, can it? You would then expose the film while metering and adapting the settings...

Verstuurd van mijn GT-P7510 met Tapatalk

 

[Les Sarile]

Info -> Pentax LX metering details

Correct link -> http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/pentaxlx/metering/metering.htm

 

[Chan Tran]

The Pentax LX when meter in manual doesn't measure the light off the film but rather via the piggy back mirror that reflects light to the sensor (similar to that of the Nikon F3)

 

[wblynch]

The patterned shutter curtain, rear-facing sensor and the two-part mirror, like the OM-2S, OM-PC, OM-4/ti and OM-3/ti?

The design and technology was invented first by Olympus.

Just sayin'...

 

[PentaxBronica]

Having seen used prices for other pro-level SLRs the LX looks an absolute bargain. Although the accessories tend to be fiercely expensive thanks to one or two ebay dealers artificially inflating the prices.

 

[Dismayed]

Or you could do whatI read on the internet a couple of years ago, for all models of the OM2SP, OM4 and OM4T/i when not being used turn the shutter speed dial to B this disconnects the battery circuit and prevents battery drain. I have been doing this for a couple of years with no adverse effects and no battery drain on my OM bodies, I also do it with my OM2ns.

Nikon's method seems superior.

 

[Les Sarile]

The Pentax LX when meter in manual doesn't measure the light off the film but rather via the piggy back mirror that reflects light to the sensor (similar to that of the Nikon F3)

And both LX & F3 actively meter off the film plane when mirror is locked up. They differ in that the F3 does not use the patterened screen while the LX does. They also differ in autoexposure mode as the F3 determines exposure at the time of shutter trip while the LX will continue to meter the scene in realtime - varying shutter time accordingly, for as long as it takes to get a proper exposure or the battery dies.

 

[Les Sarile]

The patterned shutter curtain, rear-facing sensor and the two-part mirror, like the OM-2S, OM-PC, OM-4/ti and OM-3/ti?

The design and technology was invented first by Olympus.

Just sayin'...

The 1975 OM2 may have been the first commercially released camera that implemented OTF but not the inventor. Canon has a 1969 patent for flash OTF and Minolta has a patent on OTF metering very much like that used by OM2 in 1975.

Excerpt from -> May 1976 Modern Photography review of the OM2

The Pentax LX may have patterned their Integrated Direct Metering system of previous patents/implementations, but I really appreciate that they took it a step further. To date, it's unassisted single metering range of - 6.5 EV to EV 20, longest aperture priority autoexposure, realtime scene monitoring for changes in light is unequaled by any camera past or present. I am not aware of an external meter that has this range.

 

[Les Sarile]

It doesn't

http://www.ulrich-drolshagen.de

You have some beautiful images on your site! I particularly liked this one -> [url]http://www.ulrich-drolshagen.de/gallery/albums/luneburger-heide/ilmenau.jpg[/URL]

 

[Chan Tran]

And both LX & F3 actively meter off the film plane when mirror is locked up. They differ in that the F3 does not use the patterened screen while the LX does. They also differ in autoexposure mode as the F3 determines exposure at the time of shutter trip while the LX will continue to meter the scene in realtime - varying shutter time accordingly, for as long as it takes to get a proper exposure or the battery dies.

The F3 doesn't meter at the film plane once the mirror is up. It holds the reading taken before the mirror is up and thus the shutter speed displayed in the viewfinder is the one it's going to use. It sends out a signal thru the hot shoe proportional to the intensity of the flash it reads off the film plane during exposure. For the F3 OTF is only for flash as almost all film slrs with TTL flash do.

 

[Les Sarile]

Chan, When the mirror is down, the sub mirror reflects the light to the SPC (Silicone Photo Cel). When the mirror is locked up, the backward pointing SPC detects the light off the film plane - more precisely off the shutter curtain, as there is no sub mirror to reflect it back. This of course is very simple to test as you only have to take your F3, lock the mirror in the up position, activate the metering by half pressing the shutter, face it towards a light source and move the aperture ring and you will see the meter respond to the changes. This works this way in manual mode or aperture priority and OTF TTL flash. Meter a long or short exposure - manually or aperture priority, and once the shutter is fired it will stay on course regardless of any changes in light.

 

[Chan Tran]

Chan, When the mirror is down, the sub mirror reflects the light to the SPC (Silicone Photo Cel). When the mirror is locked up, the backward pointing SPC detects the light off the film plane - more precisely off the shutter curtain, as there is no sub mirror to reflect it back. This of course is very simple to test as you only have to take your F3, lock the mirror in the up position, activate the metering by half pressing the shutter, face it towards a light source and move the aperture ring and you will see the meter respond to the changes. This works this way in manual mode or aperture priority and OTF TTL flash. Meter a long or short exposure - manually or aperture priority, and once the shutter is fired it will stay on course regardless of any changes in light.

Hi Les. Although I am not familiar with the LX as I don't have one and not very familiar with the OM-2 as I rarely ever used it. I know the F3 very well and I am sure for ambient light exposure the camera hold the reading from the SPC before it raises the mirror up. For flash exposure it reads off the film plane but it only sending out whatever the value it gets from the SPC to the flash.

 

[haziz]

Definitely the Olympus. I do have an Olympus OM4Ti but am partial to the earlier OM1 and OM2N.

 

[wiltw]

I've just read that crash test for the first time (I didn't know about it).

Interesting, but I think the reviewer makes a very common mistake about the lightmeter of the OM cameras, and I would like to know for certain once and for all:

This is what is said in the crash test about the off the frame metering:

"the shuttercurtain contains a complex, computer-calculated field of white dots. This field stands for an average exposure value for your subject. The field is measured by the meter of the camera the moment the shuytter flips up, just before the shutter opens. By means of this, the camera meter can adjust to a change in lighting of your subject in the very last instant and thus expose correctly".

I think this is plain wrong and doesn't do justice to the ingenuity of the lightmeter.

I always understood that the field of white dots on the shuttercurtain is used by the meter to show you BEFORE the exposure what value it measures, but that it adjusts DURING the exposure by metering directly from the film itself at that moment. So, it does not adjust "in the very last instant", it adjusts really while exposing.

This explains why, when "shooting" without film, the exposure time is quite a bit longer than indicated by the meter before pressing the shutter (you don't have to measure it: it's obvious; try with 1/8th to 1/2 of a second: you'll notice the difference): in that situation, during the "expsoure", the camera sees a "black hole" (the pressure plate), since there's no film, and hence uses a much longer exposure time than indicated right before pressing the shutter.

This is also useful when using the Olympus flash: the camera can cut off the flash even DURING exposure. Imagine a lot of photographers making a picture of the same subject, all at the same time, with flash (e.g. newsreporters): the OM will be able to expose correctly, because it will "see" the flashes of the OTHER cameras during exposure and will adjust accordingly while exposing.

I always understood this the case both with the OM-2 and the OM-4. Considering the time when the OM-2 was made, this was revolutionary (but I think often misunderstood and thus underestimated, and the genius of Maitani should not be underestimated).

I don't know if there is or has ever been another camera that can do this. I don't think so.

Stefan.

The photosensors in the pentaprism of the OM-1 provided an initial light reading while the reflex mirror blocked light from the focal plane. In the OM-4 a semisilvered mirror allowed the sensor in the body to read the curtains for the initial reading.
During the exposure, the sensor in the body would read the film surface for during-exposure measurement of light...so the shutter curtains had the pattern on them to permit the sensor to read the curtains when a 'slit' was travelling across the focal plane and partly obscurred the light from the film surface itself. And because only the black pressure plate was seen when no film was loaded, an empty camera would indeed result in different actual exposure than a film-loaded camera.

As for flash, the TTL-OTF (off the film) flash metering allowed the sensor to read the film surface to shut off the amount of light coming from the TTL flash...but that is inherent to the design of any TTL-OTF flash camera; my Bronica ETRSi does that too!

 

[OptiKen]

The only drawback to my OM-2sp is the photographer.
I love the camera. It quickly became intuitive to use and the size and weight make it an excellent travel camera.
The fact that it works flawlessly and accurately has kept me from looking at the more expensive 4Ti.
It's rugged, light, the metering works well and the fact that I can push a button for light in the viewfinder is a big plus to these old eyes.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Is it bright enough to read in the dark (unlike the Nikon's)?

I wear glasses and dont really see that well on dark. Never had any problem with OM4 display.

Regards.

Marcelo