Nikon F6 - old vs new

[Alan Klein]

I shoot digital but also medium format film when I want to slow down. I also have a Nikormat FT3, Nikon 6006, but don;t shoot 35mm any longer. My scanner (Epson V600 flat bed) just doesn;t do justice to 35mm. 6x7's does a lot better. Curious what you guys shoot with 35mm? Film type? What do you do with the film afterwards? By the way, good luck with the F6.

 

[CMoore]

Sulphate, all what you say is true, but.....again the bulk of people taking photos, snapshots really, are not photographers. They have no interest in Cameras/Photography as a hobby.
My Nikon mentioned above, came with a card, and the batteries it uses are not weird and outdated.
You and i do not desire to send photos over the Internet, but the rest of The World does.
Those pics i posted required no equipment, processing, scanning, or skill.
Most photos now days will Never Be Printed. The time is not too far off when you will view photos, in a museum, via flat screen monitors, or whatever the Screen/Projection technology is that makes those obsolete.
Face it, the rest of the world has no interest in what we discuss here. Their Need/Interest/Reason for taking pictures will never intersect with ours.
"Nobody" is going to spend 1k on a camera. Like Matt says, most use their cell phone, and Those Things take great pictures.

 

[blockend]

I shoot digital but also medium format film when I want to slow down. I also have a Nikormat FT3, Nikon 6006, but don;t shoot 35mm any longer. My scanner (Epson V600 flat bed) just doesn;t do justice to 35mm. 6x7's does a lot better. Curious what you guys shoot with 35mm? Film type? What do you do with the film afterwards? By the way, good luck with the F6.

I probably shoot more film than most people on apug, and it's an extremely time consuming business. I process my own colour and black and white, and scan it on a flatbed. As I aim to produce a photo book on a regular basis, editing work down to the one good shot in 4 or 5 rolls of film (if I'm lucky) means a huge throughput of film. If I was wealthier I'd send the film off to a professional lab and wait for the negatives and high quality drum scans to drop through the letterbox, but that's unrealistic. Basically, you have to be a bit crazy to shoot 35mm in 2016, though larger formats still make sense.

While I own some beautiful classic film cameras, their quality is irrelevant to getting the shot and a Nikon F60 does that just as well as a Leica M5. I've conducted an 5-year experiment in digital photography alongside film, and in truth digital gives me 9/10 of what I need at 1/10 the effort. So why shoot film? Pure sentiment, a little nostalgia, and the joy of having a negative instead of a virtual file at the end. Like I say, it helps to be a little nuts. Most of the world isn't, and have moved on.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

I probably shoot more film than most people on apug, and it's an extremely time consuming business. I process my own colour and black and white, and scan it on a flatbed. As I aim to produce a photo book on a regular basis, editing work down to the one good shot in 4 or 5 rolls of film (if I'm lucky) means a huge throughput of film. If I was wealthier I'd send the film off to a professional lab and wait for the negatives and high quality drum scans to drop through the letterbox, but that's unrealistic. Basically, you have to be a bit crazy to shoot 35mm in 2016, though larger formats still make sense.

While I own some beautiful classic film cameras, their quality is irrelevant to getting the shot and a Nikon F60 does that just as well as a Leica M5. I've conducted an 5-year experiment in digital photography alongside film, and in truth digital gives me 9/10 of what I need at 1/10 the effort. So why shoot film? Pure sentiment, a little nostalgia, and the joy of having a negative instead of a virtual file at the end. Like I say, it helps to be a little nuts. Most of the world isn't, and have moved on.

Completely agree!
BTW, how much 35mm film do you use?
I use 5-6 rolls a week. Sometimes more if I'm using as well one of my folding cameras.

 

[blockend]

Completely agree!
BTW, how much 35mm film do you use?
I use 5-6 rolls a week. Sometimes more if I'm using as well one of my folding cameras.

Yes, 3 to 5 rolls in the winter months, 5 to 8 in summer. Plus 120 and a little large format. It isn't sustainable because processing and filing takes a day, scanning at least another full day. All time that would be better spent taking photographs and creating books. Mostly it's force of habit because the aesthetic advantage of film isn't met by the extra commitment in time.

 

[farmersteve]

Well, you're right that film cameras won't ever be mainstream again. As you say, the bulk of society won't be using them.

People (like us here) buy film cameras for several reasons. One is that the process is engaging - we become involved in making the photo. Another is that we appreciate mechanical equipment or film as a medium.

From what I've been reading, film usage has found a bottom and maybe even ticked up a bit from the bottom. Now that things have leveled off from the highs, it's time for companies to figure out the market. I don't really see Canon or Nikon ever developing a new film camera again. It's going to be a different kind of company like Lomography, Impossible or MiNT

Many of you don't want wizzbang new technology in film cameras, more power to you. I have several Holgas myself. But for most of my film photography I use autofocused Canon film cameras because my keeper rate goes way up so I would like to see a new film camera with some of the latest and greatest electronics possible. But I don't think that's going to happen until the glut of super cheap film cameras clears out or demand for a new film camera gets strong enough. I could see lomography maybe coming out with a real film camera some day, maybe...

 

[Paul Howell]

I shoot 80 to 90% film, last month I shot 20 rolls of 35mm, 4 rolls of MF and 6 sheets of 4X5. I process my own B&W and have color developed and printed at a local camera shop that still has a min lab. I will be traveling to France later in the month and will take a DSLR and SLR with 20 rolls of black and white. I have 3 digital line ups, Pentax, Sigma, and Minolta/Sony which are very capable, but all in all I still enjoy the analog process including wet darkroom, I do not scan.

If anyone is to keep 35mm going it will be Nikon or maybe Cosina with an updated K mount.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Why would ANYONE pay full price and buy a new F6 when you can get mint used ones for huge discounts. There's no reason to buy a new F6 from Nikon.

Define mint?
The film count, frequently quoted to demonstrate "only five films through" can be re-set from the menu quite easily by the user and thus cannot be relied on S/H.
Page 121 in the manual:

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/F6-en.pdf

The camera counts shutter activations but accessible only at a service centre.

New is new not mint

BTW The internal "battery" is replaceable by a service centre.

 

[tom43]

I have to disagree: With reversal film and projection I get a much much better quality with 35mm film than with any digital camera. Because the imaging chain with film is much better than the digital imaging chain (digital projectors with their extremely low resolution and inferior colour fidelity are the bottleneck).
And there are lots of films (mainly colour reversal and BW negative) which are outresolving the D810 sensor at medium and higher object contrasts (I did all these tests in my optical test lab; results have currently been published in the film photography print magazine PhotoKlassik).
And high resolution BW films like Agfa Copex Rapid and Adox CMS 20 II are a league of its own.

Henning, the projection is the very last niche where the 35mm film has a small advantage over (payable) digital alternatives. Nevertheless, slide projection has also its limitations, like dust, yellow casts and unsharpness in corners using glass-free frames (even with Diaspeed XYZ frames I observe this problem). Moreover, digital display technologies improve each year, now reaching new highs with 4K and 5K OLED HDR 65-inch displays. In the next five years we can expect comparable technologies with 8K resolution, going far beyond 35mm slide resolution and delivering much higher contrast, daylight compatibility, etc.

Slide film variants are dying each year, the recent loss of Fuji Provia 400 is an example and I assume that we see the end of Velvia 50 and 100 in the very next years (unfortunately). Maybe also Provia...therefore hard to argument for a $2000+ investment in a new F6. Not to speak about the absence of any newly available quality projector.

Regarding resolution: There are many sources spread all over the net which "demonstrate" outresolving resolution of 35mm negative and slide film compared to high-res digital sensors like the Sony/Nikon D810/A7R (II) sensors. In not one single case this statement is varified by some real world image examples, e.g. by comparing drum-scanned Provia slides vs. D810 file (is their any real world image comparison in your PhotoKlassik article? Or just text or in best case a b/w resolution chart image?). I have compared for myself Provia slides using a $100.000 Nikon TI microscope with files from 6MP, 14MP and 36MP sensor files and see the resolution somewhere between 6MP to 14MP. All based on real world images with high-, medium- and low-contrast areas. Of course it is different for Adox CMS 20II, but this is an exotic film for special purposes and with very limited use spectrum.

 

[cooltouch]

With regard to all the speculation about whether we'll ever see new film cameras again, I prefer to remain optimistic, but there is one way that manufacturers may participate, short of building new cameras. Think "Mercedes Certified Pre-Owned" vehicles. Now, just imagine a company like Hasselblad acquiring lots of its old mechanical 500CMs and the like, totally going through them and refurbishing them. Same with the old lenses. And then the company offers these refurbished cameras and lenses for substantially more than what they're selling for on the used market, but WAY less than what new MF digital stuff is selling for. Backed by the mfgr with a good warranty. Given the resurgent interest in film, I think a play like this might fit well with certain manufacturers, especially ones known for producing bulletproof mechanical cameras like Hassy and Leica (with its M cameras). This could end up being a gold mine for them.

Sadly, I don't see mfgrs like Canon or Nikon participating in such a program because the emphasis would be on mechanical cameras, and neither company has produced a mechanical camera in decades.

 

[TheToadMen]

... Now, just imagine a company like Hasselblad acquiring lots of its old mechanical CM500s and the like, totally going through them and refurbishing them....

That would be a nice thing and not totally impossible too. Dead Link Removed is doing so, buying old Polaroid cameras and giving these cameras a complete overhaul before selling. They hired the man from Polaroid in The Netherlands, who had about 35 years of experience in repairing cameras. I met him in Enschede, The Netherlands during a tour of their facilities. He even refurbished my old SX-70 on the spot (and for free). He is good and he is quick. And guess what his tattoo looks like:

The Impossible Project even designed a new camera and is selling it right now.

But I'm not so sure if other (big) brands will do the same, for it is "only" a niche market to them. Maybe a third party should step in, supported by the big boys? For example there is a company here in Holland refurbishing and reselling used Apple computers for a decent price.

Another issue might be availability of spare parts. I spoke to the profession Hasselblad repair man overhere in Holland and he advised not to by a 500CM for these are very old and not all the parts are available anymore. It would be better to get a younger model from the 501 series. So another issue would be be finding someone to make quality spare parts too.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Leica, of course, will still refurbish their own film cameras.
On Hasselblad:
Are you sure he said 500CM and not 500C ?
The CM range was last made in 1994, which may or may not qualify as "very old" the 500C (1970 discontinued) I would agree to be "very old". The 501 series is actually more complex mechanically with the gliding mirror mechanism.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Yes, 3 to 5 rolls in the winter months, 5 to 8 in summer. Plus 120 and a little large format. It isn't sustainable because processing and filing takes a day, scanning at least another full day. All time that would be better spent taking photographs and creating books. Mostly it's force of habit because the aesthetic advantage of film isn't met by the extra commitment in time.

Thanks!
For me it is a question of balance: I shoot during the day and process at night. I have to do like that since I am in a house share and can only use the kitchen after all my housemates have gone to bed. The S word is whenever I have a bit of time or while waiting for kitchen to be vacant.
It helps that I have a 3-reel tank and 2x 2-reel tanks, so I can develop 7 rolls at one time.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

Define mint?
The film count, frequently quoted to demonstrate "only five films through" can be re-set from the menu quite easily by the user and thus cannot be relied on S/H.
Page 121 in the manual:

http://cdn-10.nikon-cdn.com/pdf/manuals/F6-en.pdf

The camera counts shutter activations but accessible only at a service centre.

New is new not mint

BTW The internal "battery" is replaceable by a service centre.

Congratulations on the F6!
Did you get a card from the guy that put it together thanking you for buying it?
I was told by a friend that bought a new one some years ago that it came with a "Thank you" card.

 

[TheToadMen]

Are you sure he said 500CM and not 500C ?
The CM range was last made in 1994, which may or may not qualify as "very old" the 500C (1970 discontinued) I would agree to be "very old". The 501 series is actually more complex mechanically with the gliding mirror mechanism.

It was about 2 years ago (when he repaired my old Hassy SWC), but I think he said to avoid the 500 series for old age and lack of parts (in the near future). He is saving old unrepairable cameras for parts. I checked my note book and he did say to look for a 501CM (without TTL) or a 503CW, if I was gonna get me a Hasselblad.

 

[blockend]

It's important to differentiate the desires of those inside the film photography bubble, from commercial imperatives. Digital photography has had enormous investment from camera manufacturers at a time when research into film technology has been zero, indeed photographers have lost key films that would have been used exclusively by some people. There is nothing lacking from the Nikon F5/F6/EOS1v generation of cameras in terms of capability that can be backed up by the sales of a new camera, especially when the materials necessary to use them are in decline. The most that might reasonably be offered is the continued manufacture, parts and servicing of their lead out model. In that way film photographers using 35mm film commercially would be supported as a gesture of good will, not commercial sense.

 

[RattyMouse]

Yes, 3 to 5 rolls in the winter months, 5 to 8 in summer. Plus 120 and a little large format. It isn't sustainable because processing and filing takes a day, scanning at least another full day. All time that would be better spent taking photographs and creating books. Mostly it's force of habit because the aesthetic advantage of film isn't met by the extra commitment in time.

You call this a lot?? More than most on APUG? Seriously?

 

[RattyMouse]

I've bought my F6s new because I wanted 100% safety to have perfect working cameras (and a 3 year guarantee). With used ones you never know which abuse the camera has got.
I've bought all my film Nikons new. And I have never had any issues with them.
I've bought my medium format cameras used (because they were not available new anymore). I've had issues with all of them, all needed repairs.

And I've done my part to support film camera manufacturing. I've supported the infrastructure we need as film photographers.
If all would refuse buying new film cameras, and only would want used ones, well.......then no one could ever take a single picture because no cameras would have been built.
Without film camera production, no film pictures.

And from my long experience here on apug I know: Those who have bashed me here for buying new F6s (I've got this bashing several times in the past), will be the first ones who are complaining when Nikon, Leica or others may stop production of one or more film models in the future.

Best regards,
Henning

If I were interested in Nikon (autofocus), I certainly would not complain if Nikon ceased making the F6. There are an almost unlimited number of used ones available. None of the used gear I have bought needed any service. My Nikon FM2n, Canon EOS 1V, and Fujifilm GA645 have been flawless.

I did buy my Fuji GF670 and GF670W new, but that was only because they are so rare that at the time, finding used copies was not possible. Today I think you can do it and I would not hesitate to do so.

 

[blockend]

You call this a lot?? More than most on APUG? Seriously?

Well it's impossible to know but averaging a 35mm film a day, 365 days a year, plus about half that on 120 and occasional large format, all home developed and scanned, is as much as I can cope with as an amateur. I've shot plenty more in the past as a pro and an amateur, including two weeks away recently when I got through around 50 rolls of colour and black and white film, but I'm guessing that's more than most APUGers, yes.

 

[Chris Livsey]

It was about 2 years ago (when he repaired my old Hassy SWC), but I think he said to avoid the 500 series for old age and lack of parts (in the near future). He is saving old unrepairable cameras for parts. I checked my note book and he did say to look for a 501CM (without TTL) or a 503CW, if I was gonna get me a Hasselblad.

Thanks for that, interesting. AFAIK Hasselblad have issued no service advisory of support discontinuation (yet) and still list V and X-pan cameras with costs for estimates, they have withdrawn full service support for digital H prior to H3DII series which has been notified.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Congratulations on the F6!
Did you get a card from the guy that put it together thanking you for buying it?
I was told by a friend that bought a new one some years ago that it came with a "Thank you" card.

Thanks, I'm loving it:


Regrettably no card, I would have framed it!!

 

[RattyMouse]

Well it's impossible to know but averaging a 35mm film a day, 365 days a year, plus about half that on 120 and occasional large format, all home developed and scanned, is as much as I can cope with as an amateur. I've shot plenty more in the past as a pro and an amateur, including two weeks away recently when I got through around 50 rolls of colour and black and white film, but I'm guessing that's more than most APUGers, yes.

In your post it says 5-8 in winter. Now you are saying 1 per day for a full year? That's a wild swing, so I'm not sure exactly what your consumption of film is. Anyway, it does not matter.

 

[mweintraub]

2. Extremely seldom have been reports about dead internal system batteries. Looks like this happened only when cameras have been stored without the normal batteries or complete empty batteries for months.

Yep, that's what happened to mine. I got it from a friend who didn't have a battery in it. I'm going to give APS a call today.

 

[blockend]

In your post it says 5-8 in winter. Now you are saying 1 per day for a full year? That's a wild swing, so I'm not sure exactly what your consumption of film is. Anyway, it does not matter.

You may have misread the original post, Ricardo asked how many rolls per week. The average comes to somewhere around a roll per day of 35mm over a year. Put it this way, my film fridge was full to the top in January, now there's plenty of room inside. That isn't close to Daido Moriyama who is said to have got through 10 rolls of Tri-X a day for years, but I think it may be in the upper percentile on this forum, seeing as a lot of it is given over to camera collection, but there's no way of knowing. Whatever, I agree volume of film consumed is the worst way to evaluate interesting photography.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

You may have misread the original post, Ricardo asked how many rolls per week.

Yes, I asked per week.

Whatever, I agree volume of film consumed is the worst way to evaluate interesting photography.

Yeap, but perhaps it is the best way to evaluate interest in film.