Nikon F2A Photomic Finder DP-11

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

Hi,

Have a Nikon F2 with Photomic DP-1 head.

The DP-1 meter is not functioning.

Will my camera take the DP-11 head please?

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Not sure if my Nikon is an F2 or F2A - my DP-1 head does not have the letter 'A' on its front side.

Thanks

KR

Les Sarile · Aug 2, 2023

A Nikon F2 body will be able to use any prism made for it . . .
F2 Eyelevel = F2 with DE-1 = F2
F2 Photomic = F2 with DP-1 = F2 (Photomic)
F2 Photomic S = F2 with DP-2 = F2S
F2 Photomic SB = F2 with DP-3 = F2SB
F2 Photomic A = F2 with DP-11 = F2A
F2 Photomic AS = F2 with DP-12 = F2AS

You can read more about this on Photography in Malaysia Nikon Interchangeable Prisms for F2 Series bodies - Index Page

BradS · Aug 2, 2023

Yes, any Nikon F2 body will accept any Nikon F2 finder. The finder is what makes it a plain F2 or F2A or F2AS, etc.

The bodies and finders and focusing screens are all interchangeable.

Note however, that pre-AI lenses will not work with the DP-11 and DP-12 finders... well, they will work but you have to move the little AI feeler thingy out of the way and then you loose open aperture metering.

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

Les Sarile said:
A Nikon F2 body will be able to use any prism made for it . . .
F2 Eyelevel = F2 with DE-1 = F2
F2 Photomic = F2 with DP-1 = F2 (Photomic)
F2 Photomic S = F2 with DP-2 = F2S
F2 Photomic SB = F2 with DP-3 = F2SB
F2 Photomic A = F2 with DP-11 = F2A
F2 Photomic AS = F2 with DP-12 = F2AS

You can read more about this on Photography in Malaysia Nikon Interchangeable Prisms for F2 Series bodies - Index Page

Thank you - that's a relief, my F2 has film in it I wish to double-expose, but I'd need some accuracy there, which is why I'm getting a DP-11 (which I thought was a DP-2, but no matter)

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

BradS said:
Yes, any Nikon F2 body will accept any Nikon F2 finder. The finder is what makes it a plain F2 or F2A or F2AS, etc.

The bodies and finders and focusing screens are all interchangeable.

Note however, that pre-AI lenses will not work with the DP-11 and DP-12 finders... well, they will work but you have to move the little AI feller thingy out of the way and then you loose open aperture metering.

That's brilliant - thanks - can't wait to try out the working DP-11. I have a 50mm & 135mm lens for the Nikon - eventually I want to get the waist-finder viewer for it, as well

Oops, just re-read what you said - well, I'm not sure what the Nikon lenses are, because I bought them separately - will have to wait & see.

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

These are my Nikon lenses

BradS · Aug 2, 2023

kr236rk said:
These are my Nikon lenses...

Those are both non-AI but may have been AI converted later. Unless they were AI converted, they will not work very well with the DP-11 finder.

Will need to see the other end of the lens, the surface that mates to the camera, to make a determination.

NOTE! if a non-AI lens is mounted on the F2A without moving the little feeler thingy out of the way, it will likely damage the DP-11 finder.

here's a very short video showing how to move the AI feeler thingy out of the way so that non-AI lenses can be safely mounted on the F2A or F2AS...

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

Thanks. Hopefully, the (new F2) body with the DP-11 will come with an AI lens - but these are the current lenses from the back.

BradS · Aug 2, 2023

The 135mm, on the right in the photo above, appears to be AI - it's fuzzy so, a little hard to tell - but at about the 3 o'clock position, it looks like the rim of the lens has the AI 'notch' that extends up to about the 12 o'clock position. The lens on the left is missing that 'notch' in the outer rim of the back of the lens - it is non-AI and won't work with the DP-11 (it will damage the finder if mounted without moving the feeler thingy out of the way).

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

BradS said:
The 135mm, on the right in the photo above, appears to be AI - it's fuzzy so, a little hard to tell - but at about the 3 o'clock position, it looks like the rim of the lens has the AI 'notch' that extends up to about the 12 o'clock position. The lens on the left is missing that 'notch' in the outer rim of the back of the lens - it is non-AI and won't work with the DP-11 (it will damage the finder if mounted without moving the feeler thingy out of the way).

Thanks - I read that AI lenses have 2 rings of aperture numbers on them - is this correct please?

jimjm · Aug 2, 2023

According to the serial # on your 135mm lens, it is pre-AI (non-AI). With the introduction of AI, Nikon added a second row of smaller aperture numerals close to the lens mount. This allowed many Nikon bodies to view the set aperture thru a small window just above the lens mount.

Now, if you decide to go with the DP-11, you can have your lenses converted to the AI mount by John White, which will allow you to use them on pre-AI or AI/AIS bodies. He just replaces the aperture ring with one that is AI-compatible, so it will engage with the meter of the DP-11 correctly. He only charges $25 per lens and has converted about a half-dozen lenses for me.
If you really enjoy using the lens, then it's worth the cost to have it converted, IMHO.

reddesert · Aug 2, 2023

There are several physical differences between non-AI and AI lenses, but because many lenses have been converted by installation of a new aperture ring, or by aftermarket machining, or by home conversions, you need to understand the difference that mechanically matters, which is #1 in this list.

1. Non-AI lenses have an aperture ring that projects back behind the lens mount surface a little that will foul the aperture following tab on an AI prism or camera (like a DP-11, or an FE, etc). On AI and converted lenses, there is a notch or step in the rear surface of the aperture ring that has clearance for the camera's tab and engages it.

2. Non-AI lenses have a solid metering prong (silver-colored rabbit ears) on the aperture ring to couple to non-AI meters like the DP-1. AI and factory converted lenses have a prong with 2 holes in it. 3rd party lenses usually follow this convention, with exceptions (Tamron Adaptall). Nikon AF lenses with aperture rings don't have prongs, but they have the step in the rear surface of the ring so they work with AI cameras.

3. AI lenses should have a second set of small aperture numbers at the base of the ring, which the camera uses to show aperture in the viewfinder. But home-converted lenses might not have it, and it has no bearing on the question of mechanical compatibility (item 1).

BradS · Aug 2, 2023

kr236rk said:
Thanks - I read that AI lenses have 2 rings of aperture numbers on them - is this correct please?

Yes. AI and AI-S lenses have the sequence of aperture numbers in two places....BUT some non-AI lenses that were converted to AI may not have the second row of tiny aperture number close to the lens mount. The notch in the rim of the lens is important the other differneces are just for convenience.

According to the serial numbers, your lenses are both non-AI but, like I said above, the 135mm f/3.5 looks like it might have been AI converted. It is really hard to tell from the photos because they are so blurry.

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

jimjm said:
According to the serial # on your 135mm lens, it is pre-AI (non-AI). With the introduction of AI, Nikon added a second row of smaller aperture numerals close to the lens mount. This allowed many Nikon bodies to view the set aperture thru a small window just above the lens mount.

Now, if you decide to go with the DP-11, you can have your lenses converted to the AI mount by John White, which will allow you to use them on pre-AI or AI/AIS bodies. He just replaces the aperture ring with one that is AI-compatible, so it will engage with the meter of the DP-11 correctly. He only charges $25 per lens and has converted about a half-dozen lenses for me.
If you really enjoy using the lens, then it's worth the cost to have it converted, IMHO.

Thanks, I am in the UK though - it may be a better idea for me to get an AI lens for studio work, but keep the 135mm for outdoor photography ~ I use waist-viewing, plus a hand-held meter for outdoors, so the DP mismatch isn't an issue.

How many F-Stops will the 135mm lose when metering for a 50mm lens please?

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

BradS said:
Yes. AI and AI-S lenses have the sequence of aperture numbers in two places....BUT some non-AI lenses that were converted to AI may not have the second row of tiny aperture number close to the lens mount. The notch in the rim of the lens is important the other differneces are just for convenience.

According to the serial numbers, your lenses are both non-AI but, like I said above, the 135mm f/3.5 looks like it might have been AI converted. It is really hard to tell from the photos because they are so blurry.

Sorry about the blur. I wouldn't use the 135mm for TTL metering anyway, it's a 50mm AI that I need for that - for tricky indoor stuff, too convoluted for hand-metering. This is a whole new ball-game for me, I have always used Canon FD in the past

kr236rk · Aug 2, 2023

Love the F2s, chunky, heavy, solid

kr236rk · Aug 3, 2023

Are the AI-s lenses compatible with the DP-11 please? Thanks.

BradS · Aug 3, 2023

kr236rk said:
Are the AI-s lenses compatible with the DP-11 please? Thanks.

Yes.

Les Sarile · Aug 3, 2023

kr236rk said:
Are the AI-s lenses compatible with the DP-11 please? Thanks.

Yes it is.

Compatibility chart and Nikon lens definitions Ken Rockwell Nikon compatibility

kr236rk · Aug 3, 2023

Les Sarile said:
Yes it is.

Compatibility chart and Nikon lens definitions Ken Rockwell Nikon compatibility

Thanks

kr236rk · Aug 3, 2023

Seen a Vivitar 35-70mm zoom, compatible with / Nikon F mount ~ it has the aluminium 'horse-shoe - rabbit ears', plus the double aperture numbers. This must surely be AI / AI-s friendly?

Pieter12 · Aug 3, 2023

I'm pretty sure you can use the Nikon F prism on the F2 as well.

jimjm · Aug 3, 2023

kr236rk said:
Seen a Vivitar 35-70mm zoom, compatible with / Nikon F mount ~ it has the aluminium 'horse-shoe - rabbit ears', plus the double aperture numbers. This must surely be AI / AI-s friendly?

Nikon introduced the AI mount around 1977, so most of the 3rd party lenses you'll come across are AI/AIS mount as these became very popular in the late 70's and early 80's. There are online sources to verify the dates by serial numbers and different versions of specific lenses for brands like Vivitar.

jimjm · Aug 3, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I'm pretty sure you can use the Nikon F prism on the F2 as well.

Yep, I have a Nikon F prism on my F2. Just the Nikon nameplate is missing.

kr236rk · Aug 3, 2023

jimjm said:
Nikon introduced the AI mount around 1977, so most of the 3rd party lenses you'll come across are AI/AIS mount as these became very popular in the late 70's and early 80's. There are online sources to verify the dates by serial numbers and different versions of specific lenses for brands like Vivitar.

Might take a chance - thanks.

Otherwise, need a variety of lenses. With Canon FD I used tubes for macro, for example, but that isn't possible with metered AI/AI-s because of the rabbit ears.

Nikon F2A Photomic Finder DP-11

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