One more advantage of Vuescan over NikonScan is when batch scanning an entire roll, it is way faster.
Thank you both for your comprehensive answers!
I've decided I'm going to just try them all out for size, starting with Nikon Scan on an older Mac, and then take it from there, I may even omit using NLP if the colours from the scans are decent.
Whilst I could certainly improve in the dusting department, my home isn't a hovel, yet still I need all the help I can get when it comes to dust removal!
I'll update you all once I've had chance to have a play but my current thought is Nikon Scan after having a read this afternoon and your points on this thread.
I run a Coolscan 9000 and recently have been comparing NikonScan, Vuescan + NLP, and Vuescan alone (using its own color inversion tools).
While I felt the Nikonscan output looked great in terms of contrast and sharpness, there is a major caveat in terms of dynamic range, and colorspaces in particular. As much as I liked Nikonscan, it consistently clipped the highlights for me. I could play around with levels a bit, but then my shadows would get crushed. On challenging negatives I always seemed to lose recoverable detail in the extremes. This is apparently a known phenomenon, with plenty of threads on the topic here as well as other sites.
I have been an NLP user for quite some time and am generally satisfied with it. What I don't like, however, is having a bunch of files in my library that rely on this proprietary plugin. Going from the "negative" to a "positive" means I have more files to keep track of. And honestly, in the end, I found Vuescans own inversion/color correction tools to be just as good.
Currently I am using Vuescan and following the "super advanced workflow" which essentially uses the analog gain of each LED color channel to negate the orange mask. Overall this has been giving me more consistent results than I have had with NLP.
Here's a couple links that go through the process:
Vuescan & Erik Krause's Advanced Workflow = BROKEN
Hi, <p> I was a big fan of Erik Krause's Advanced Workflow for scanning color negative film with the Nikon film scanners. <p> It went something like this: <p> -Preview<br> -Lock Exposure<br> -Preview again<br> -Lock Film Base Color<br> -Amongst the 'film ...www.photo.net
Vuescan: my new advanced workflow
I've been busting my brain trying to make Vuescan do what I want it to do. Using the specified "advanced workflow" consistently produces muddy shadows and never enough room on the toe of the curve. My new advanced workflow is as follows: Preview, Lock Exposure at 1.0 (ie. ignore whatever value...www.pcreview.co.uk
It adds a couple of steps to the overall process, but I think it is worth it. I can arrive at just as consistent results as NLP, but with the added benefit of only having single copies of photos in my library, and the ability to use Lightroom's adjustments from the onset, and furthermore removes the reliance on NLP (and LR for that matter, say if your preferred editing app is C1, for example).
I think that if Nikonscan didn't have trouble with colorspaces/dynamic range, I would stick with that though. Your mileage may vary!
Maybe just as important are the color results you get, particularly from color negatives. Here I used all the different Vuescan options on the same frame of Kodak 160VC compared to the default neutral setting from Nikonscan.
I’m curious about this. Are you suggesting that while using the same scanner, if you use the old Nikon software you can achieve more highlight and more shadow detail than any other software? Can Nikon software somehow crank up dynamic range to eleven and beyond? Maybe it can, but I’ve not heard this before. Are we missing out on dynamic range by using Silverfast or Vuescan?A single scan of Kodak Portra 400 with deep shadows and blownout highlights and you can recover both using post Shadows and Highlights tools . . .
I’m curious about this. Are you suggesting that while using the same scanner, if you use the old Nikon software you can achieve more highlight and more shadow detail than any other software? Can Nikon software somehow crank up dynamic range to eleven and beyond? Maybe it can, but I’ve not heard this before. Are we missing out on dynamic range by using Silverfast or Vuescan?
Hi Les, just FYI you didn’t use “all the options”. You used some useless presets. Those results you share are the results people get if they don’t read the manual. I agree they look terrible. There is good info in the Vuescan documentation to help you avoid awful results.
I’m curious about this. Are you suggesting that while using the same scanner, if you use the old Nikon software you can achieve more highlight and more shadow detail than any other software? Can Nikon software somehow crank up dynamic range to eleven and beyond? Maybe it can, but I’ve not heard this before. Are we missing out on dynamic range by using Silverfast or Vuescan?
@Les Sarile thanks for the flickr instructions on how to do custom settings. I noticed ICE need to be set for every frame out of a 6 frame stipe, which is quite tedious. Your method made it easier and saves time. Thanks you sir!
Best of luck, and do share some scans when you get everything up and running.Hi folks,
Just a little update for you all!
I purchased a late 2009 iMac 3.06Ghz which is arriving tomorrow for £40 (eBay) + 16GB of ram for an extra £14 (Amazon) which should run Nikon Scan nicely. I'm downgrading the firmware to it's original OS X which happens to be Snow Leopard (which is generally accepted as the final OS X that is compatible).
As you've probably guessed, I've decided to try out Nikon Scan first as £54 for the above + an evening of my time is cheaper than £100 for Vuescan, plus the staunch support NS still has online has pushed me to try it first and try Vuescan only if I'm dissatisfied!
I need to read through the manual for NS and refer to the above suggested workflow to understand how it all operates but I'm feeling hopeful!
Thanks
I bought the 5000 when it was first released in early 2000. I tried Vuescan then but Ed Hamrick states that his implementation of ICE is not the same as Nikonscan due to intellectual property rights. I don't know if that has since changed.
Here's the results of ICE on a very scratched up frame of Kodak 160VC
Coolscan 5000 ICE Nikonscan vs Vuescan by Les DMess, on Flickr
Maybe just as important are the color results you get, particularly from color negatives. Here I used all the different Vuescan options on the same frame of Kodak 160VC compared to the default neutral setting from Nikonscan.
Coolscan 5000 Nikonscan and Vuescan Kodak 160VC by Les DMess, on Flickr
A single scan of Kodak Portra 400 with deep shadows and blownout highlights and you can recover both using post Shadows and Highlights tools . . .
Kodak Portra 400-04-24A by Les DMess, on Flickr
You can do HDR compositing or Shadows tool in post with Fuji RVP100 color slide . . .
Fuji RVP100_04-06HDR by Les DMess, on Flickr
Stitching even 9 frames of Kodak Ektar 100 is simple due to the color fidelity of each scan . . .
Kodak Ektar 100_31-16to24_stitch C by Les DMess, on Flickr
This of 4 frames of Kodak Ektar 100 . . .
Kodak Ektar 100_20-18-21_stitch by Les DMess, on Flickr
Given these results, I continue to maintain a Windows Vista PC to run Nikonscan on my Coolscans. I've since scanned over 30K frames of various films using color neutral settings. I would characterize the workflow as uneventful and predictable. About the only setting I may change is Master Gain to keep the highlights from getting blown. A feat that is just about impossible to do with today's color negatives and b&w films.
Best of luck, and do share some scans when you get everything up and running.
Thanks Les,
Can I just clarify if you have adjusted the shadows/highlights etc after scanning in e.g. Adobe LR or did you do it before scanning in Nikon Scan?
Thanks
For that Portra 400 shot of my Toyota in the garage, I just did a scan with the settings as shown in Step #3 of that Nikonscan making and applying presets - all color settings OFF with autofocus, autoexpose, Analog Gain neutral normal ICE ON.
#3 by Les DMess, on Flickr
Currently I only use ACDSee Ultimate as it has the same facilities of Highlights and Shadows control - and all the other image controls I typically use, and applied it to that image to get the shadow details and blownout highlights.
Depending on whether I need the shadow or highlights - and I cannot reach it just using post tools, I will adjust Analog Gain Master to over or under expose the scan. In that Kodak Ektar 100 of the front lit Las Vegas sign at night, I did that and combined the under, normal and over scans using HDR.
For instance in that extremely contrast scene (overhead sun) on contrasty Kodak Ektar 100 of the fighter jet, I adjusted to underexpose the scan enough to tame most of the highlight and yet was still able to recover the shadows. In fact, you can download that image and use the Shadows tool - Light Equalizer in ACDSee, and you can see how much of the shadow details you can still get.
Notice that these are full res scans with very small file sizes due to a lot of JPEG compression applied. If you need even more aggressive post work, a 16bit uncompressed TIF can give you a little bit more room to work. I've had to resort to this when trying to get something - anything, from very dark Kodachrome slides.
I purchased a late 2009 iMac 3.06Ghz which is arriving tomorrow for £40 (eBay) + 16GB of ram for an extra £14 (Amazon) which should run Nikon Scan nicely.
Yes, going with the "period" computer to run older periphery is usually the easiest route. Take note of what ram you got and do report back if it works. There might be other people running those machines that would also like to upgrade for such little money.
That is true.
But, first you need to have a PC at hand, then you will need to sort out the mess of M$ half ditching Firewire in Win10, circumvent digital signature enforcement in Win 10 (or maybe you could use Vuescan demo for the driver), get firewire card that fits your computer (modern PCs don't have PCI slots anymore)... It's easy if you know a little about computers, not so if you don't.
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