Nikon AIS vs newer Nikon AF/AF-D/AF-S lenses?

Calder Muller · Nov 24, 2023

Hi folks,

I'm looking for opinions on Nikon or Nikon compatible lenses...

I'm a photography student and Im looking to expand my lens selection for my digital (Nikon D850) and film (FE2) Nikon bodies.

I have some manual focus lenses which I love (28mm f2 AI, 35mm f2 AIS, 50mm f1.4 AIS, 85mm f1.4 AIS), but I've been wanting some wider and longer options, probably something in the 16-24mm range and something in the 150-300mm range. Im looking for sharp primes, I prefer manual focus, and I don't need especially fast lenses, most images I shoot are between f4 and f11. I love the build quality and size of the AI/AIS lenses I have.

So, my question is: are later AF/AF-D/AF-S lenses substantially better optically, especially with ultra-wide focal lengths? Are they worth the (I've heard) worse built quality, larger size, and worse manual focus feel?

Im also open to suggetions for lenses from other brands, but I need lenses which will work with my film body, which means aperture rings, although stop down metering is O.K.

Thanks!

mshchem · Nov 24, 2023

180 ED f2.8 AIS, amazing glass, can be found in amazing condition for under 300 bucks, look at the 20mm f2.8. 135 f2 etc. You've made some great selections so far. Check Japan dealers with perfect or near perfect ratings.

bdial · Nov 24, 2023

I’ll second the 180 f/2.8, mine is earlier than the ED version, but it still plays well on digital, which is not always the case for film-era lenses.

beemermark · Nov 24, 2023

I have the 24/2 and 35/1.4 lenses and love them. Build quality (probably doesn't really matter) went down hill after the AIS lenses. I have a 25-50/4 Nikkor which is fantastic but you can only focus on manual bodies (AF bodies focusing screen aren't optimal for manual focusing). The 105/2.5 is also a classic.

Craig · Nov 24, 2023

The early AF lenses were not as good for manual focus feel, but the newer ones are much improved. For the wide angles especially, there has been much improvement in the AF lenses. The AF 20/2.8D is an excelletn lens both optically and mechanially. It woks well manually focused or with AF.

mshchem · Nov 24, 2023

Craig said:
The early AF lenses were not as good for manual focus feel, but the newer ones are much improved. For the wide angles especially, there has been much improvement in the AF lenses. The AF 20/2.8D is an excelletn lens both optically and mechanially. It woks well manually focused or with AF.

Agreed same design as the Ai version, I have both the Ai and the AF-D versions (can't resist a nice deal) the AF versions actually may be less expensive in a real nice grade.

Calder Muller · Nov 25, 2023

mshchem said:
Agreed same design as the Ai version, I have both the Ai and the AF-D versions (can't resist a nice deal) the AF versions actually may be less expensive in a real nice grade.

Thanks for the recommendations!

Do the AI and AF-D versions of the 20mm f2.8 optically differ considerably?

That 180mm f2.8 seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, and not too expensive for the performance it delivers (also a good sign in my book that it performs this well with only five elements, for rendering quality).

mshchem · Nov 25, 2023

Calder Muller said:
Thanks for the recommendations!

Do the AI and AF-D versions of the 20mm f2.8 optically differ considerably?

That 180mm f2.8 seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, and not too expensive for the performance it delivers (also a good sign in my book that it performs this well with only five elements, for rendering quality).

In the 180 get the ED version, it's insanely sharp.

Look at

Nikon Lens Reviews

Lots of good information

Calder Muller · Nov 25, 2023

mshchem said:
In the 180 get the ED version, it's insanely sharp.

Look at

Nikon Lens Reviews
Lots of good information

Ken Rockwell says that they're optically identical, so I guess I prefer the AIS for its looks, although its more expensive.

wondering if anyone has tried the 18mm f3.5 ais...

George Mann · Nov 25, 2023

Most of the best prime Ai/Ai-S lenses are better overall than their AF counterparts, with only a few remaining the same.

Some of the lenses you have are OK, but not the best offered in their focal lengths.

The 28mm f/2.8 Ai-S (modern) or f/3.5 Ai-S (classic), early long-barrel 35mm f/2.8 Ai (modern) and 50mm f/2 Ai (best of both worlds) are the very best rendering, with the 50mm f/1.4 series not being technically outperformed here within its optimal aperture range.

The 85mm f/1.4 Ai to AF is perhaps their best as well, although the f/2.8 may be somewhat special in its rendering.

For a zoom, the Nikkor 14-24mm is a tough one to beat.

Calder Muller · Nov 25, 2023

George Mann said:
Most of the best prime Ai/Ai-S lenses are better overall than their AF counterparts, with only a few remaining the same.

Some of the lenses you have are OK, but not the best offered in their focal lengths.

The 28mm f/2.8 Ai-S (modern) or f/3.5 Ai-S (classic), early long-barrel 35mm f/2.8 Ai (modern) and 50mm f/2 Ai (best of both worlds) are the very best rendering, with the 50mm f/1.4 series not being technically outperformed here within its optimal aperture range.

The 85mm f/1.4 Ai to AF is perhaps their best as well, although the f/2.8 may be somewhat special in its rendering.

For a zoom, the Nikkor 14-24mm is a tough one to beat.

To be honest, I'm quite happy with my copy of the 35mm f2 AIS, although I have noticed some distortion on the 28/2.

The Nikkor 14-24mm is a beauty, but without an aperture ring It just isn't very useful to me.

George Mann · Nov 25, 2023

Calder Muller said:
To be honest, I'm quite happy with my copy of the 35mm f2 AIS, although I have noticed some distortion on the 28/2.

Only the f/2.8 Ai-S version is free from distortion.

Calder Muller said:
The Nikkor 14-24mm is a beauty, but without an aperture ring It just isn't very useful to me.

This lens is for digital cameras.

MultiFormat Shooter · Nov 25, 2023

George Mann said:
This lens is for digital cameras.

It works well, on "recent" film cameras.

Paul Howell · Nov 25, 2023

OP has an FE2 and G lens will only work at fixed aperture?

MultiFormat Shooter · Nov 25, 2023

Paul Howell said:
OP has an FE2 and G lens will only work at fixed aperture?

Correct, a G lens will technically work, but only at whatever the minimum aperture of the lens in question is. So for practical purposes, they don't work. I was just responding to @George Mann to let him know that G lenses will work on some film cameras.

chuckroast · Nov 25, 2023

Calder Muller said:
Hi folks,

I'm looking for opinions on Nikon or Nikon compatible lenses...

I'm a photography student and Im looking to expand my lens selection for my digital (Nikon D850) and film (FE2) Nikon bodies.

I have some manual focus lenses which I love (28mm f2 AI, 35mm f2 AIS, 50mm f1.4 AIS, 85mm f1.4 AIS), but I've been wanting some wider and longer options, probably something in the 16-24mm range and something in the 150-300mm range. Im looking for sharp primes, I prefer manual focus, and I don't need especially fast lenses, most images I shoot are between f4 and f11. I love the build quality and size of the AI/AIS lenses I have.

So, my question is: are later AF/AF-D/AF-S lenses substantially better optically, especially with ultra-wide focal lengths? Are they worth the (I've heard) worse built quality, larger size, and worse manual focus feel?

Im also open to suggetions for lenses from other brands, but I need lenses which will work with my film body, which means aperture rings, although stop down metering is O.K.

Thanks!

Notwithstanding that newer lenses are - in some cases - "better" than older ones, I would not discount older ones on that basis. The chances of you pushing the new lens to its limits vary between unlikely and highly unlikely Moreover, you'll save money.

For example, many here rightly (I presume) call out the 180mm ED as the amazing. Well, I have an older 180mm f/2.8 Ai Nikkor-P. And IT is pretty amazing in its own right.

Similarly, the 35m f/1.4 is AF is claimed to be better than the Ai-S variant that preceded it. This is possibly true, but I have it in Ai-S dress and it's an excellent all around performer.

In my experience any of the Ai and Ai-S primes are really good and should not not discounted as an option so long as they are in good shape otherwise. I use the lenses above along with a half dozen others on both film bodies and a D-750 and get very fine results.

The only thing I would avoid like the plague are the older zooms. Modern zooms benefit from far better computation power being available to solve the optical calculations involved and they are thus much better than their ancestors.

FotoD · Nov 25, 2023

I've used 24mm and 35mm AF(-D) lenses on a manual camera. Hated the short focus throw and narrow focus ring. AI(-S) lenses are much better in that regard.

Nitroplait · Nov 25, 2023

If looking for a bargain with amazing capabilities, consider a 200mm f/4 Ai/ais.
They are compact, sharp wide open and ultra cheap.
Works great for me on film and adapted to Z6ii.

jimjm · Nov 25, 2023

I agree with the recommendation of the 180/2.8 lens - all versions are very good but the later AF-D ED-IF is one of the best Nikon lenses I've ever used. Pro build quality and it will work on your FE2 just fine. Not a small lens, though. The 200/4 AI or AIS is really good and much smaller.
The 20/2.8 AIS is excellent, but I hear the 20/3.5 is good too.
I don't know that many of the later AF prime lenses were much better than the AI or AIS versions. The manual-focus lenses have a great tactile feel which was compromised in some of the AF versions. Nikon seemed to concentrate on improving the zoom lenses, which got a lot better over the years.

George Mann · Nov 25, 2023

MultiFormat Shooter said:
I was just responding to @George Mann to let him know that G lenses will work on some film cameras.

Which I am aware of. He stated that he has a D850 to mate with said lens.

Paul Howell · Nov 25, 2023

When a working PH i passed on the 180 2.8 for the 200 4.0 simply due to weight. I bought a non AI version for my F, still a nice lens, even with older coating good contrast, sharp from 2.8 to 16, some distortion in my example at 22 and 32.

Chan Tran · Nov 25, 2023

The newest lenses which are G and or E type are the best in term of image quality but they don't work on the FE2. But with the D850 you do need their optical performance to get the benefit of a very high MP sensor.

__Brian · Nov 25, 2023

The AF-D 20mm F2.8 has major issues with the cement used for the rear group: it hazes up, and reduces contrast. I've read some state the early AF-Nikkor 20/2.8 used a different cement. I know one person that separated the elements by heating in cooking oil. I'll try that if mine gets worse.

The AF-Nikkor 24/2.8 is optically identical to the AIs version, I just swapped front elements on them: the AIs lens had some coating issues on the rear elements. Front was perfect, AF-Nikkor was under $50, front was marred.

George Mann · Nov 26, 2023

Chan Tran said:
The newest lenses which are G and or E type are the best in term of image quality

These lenses aren't as superior as you think they are. The 50mm f/2 Ai whips their tails off, and the original long-barrel 35mm f/2.8 Ai is just as good as the current f/1.8 version, but with less distortion to boot.

Hell even the 28mm f/3.5 Ai-S fails to be embarrassed on the D850!

Paul Howell · Nov 26, 2023

In what way is the 50mm F 2 D a better lens that the G? From what I can determine both will resolve 200 LPM, Tmax 100, both seem to good in terms of distortion from wide to F16, the G may have better coatings. I am looking for a 50 for my F4, so G and E are out, looking at a D or a first generation AF normal.

Nikon AIS vs newer Nikon AF/AF-D/AF-S lenses?

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